Development




	Here are the logs from the development hour held on 30th May 2004. [20:01] <Anigel> Welcome to the development hour (or two) [20:01] <Anigel> For those of you who have not been to one of these before here is what happens [20:02] <Anigel> We go through several aspects of the game asking if anyone has any ideas [20:02] <Anigel> Then we listen to each idea in turn and decide if it should be added [20:02] <Anigel> or if it needs voting on [20:02] <Anigel> or if it cannot be added for some reason [20:02] <Anigel> The topics we cover are [20:03] <Anigel> Alliances (sector/empire) alliances are not up for discussion just additions to them [20:03] <Anigel> Sectors [20:03] <Anigel> Ships [20:03] <Anigel> Market [20:03] <Anigel> Other/general ideas [20:03] <Anigel> Please bear with us tonight as it is just me today [20:04] <Anigel> so to get us started i will be asking if anyone has any ideas relating to alliances. Please just say yes if you do [20:04] <Anigel> Any ideas for alliances? [20:04] <Bittersweet> yes [20:04] <Zoid> yes [20:04] <Karasov> yes [20:04] <Macey> yes [20:04] <Lockon> yes [20:04] <mAdAnA> yes : can you make more sectors per alliance ? [20:04] <nav555> madana, you say yes, and then they'll call on you later [20:05] <Anigel> Hi Bittersweet - What is your idea? [20:05] <Bittersweet> this round on appollo we had an sl in a different alliance steal the sector fund [20:06] <Bittersweet> it's not good haveing different alliances represted in one sector [20:06] <Bittersweet> there should be an alliance fund [20:06] <Bittersweet> not sector when sector is meaningless [20:06] <Anigel> Sector is only meaningless if that is what you make it [20:06] <Anigel> sector alliances make it more meaningful [20:06] <Bittersweet> it means little when it is empire alliances [20:06] <Anigel> but empire alliances can work if you pick a trustworthy sl [20:07] <Anigel> I would have to disagree they are as worthless as you make them [20:07] <Anigel> a good sl will make them mean a lot [20:07] <Bittersweet> it's not fair however when there are several alliances represented [20:07] <Anigel> An alliance fund will do very little to aid the smaller alliances and only make the larger ones even bigger [20:07] <Bittersweet> as it is with secotr alliances [20:07] <Bittersweet> not much difference [20:08] <Bittersweet> weak sector small fund [20:08] <Anigel> Not really because that could be just half an alliance [20:08] <Bittersweet> and when it's the bigger allinace on control of the secotr with empire allinace how does that help the people in the smaller allinaces [20:08] <Anigel> Sorry I dont think adding an alliance fund is likely to happen - I know similar things have been rejected before [20:09] <Anigel> Karasov [20:09] <Karasov> yeah hi [20:09] <Karasov> many people declare war to get rid of peace. I suggest a war declaration reverts peace to neutral until the other side confirms, and then optionally, war. [20:10] <Anigel> You can just declare neutral to get rid of peace [20:10] <Anigel> tehre is no need to declare war to get rid of it [20:10] <Karasov> but yxou have to wait for confirmation, right* [20:10] <Karasov> ? [20:10] <Anigel> no any al can set neutral at any time [20:10] <Anigel> It is only peace that needs a confirmation [20:10] <Karasov> hmmm how could I miss that? nevermind then [20:10] <Karasov> -v me [20:10] <Anigel> kk ta [20:10] <mAdAnA> 12,00:4,00) [20:11] <Anigel> mAdAnA ? [20:11] <mAdAnA> so as i suggested, just think what will bring to 3 sec per alliance to game [20:11] <mAdAnA> more weak players in good alliances [20:11] <mAdAnA> in two sec per all there is a way to break and get alliance powerless [20:12] <mAdAnA> break in 2 parts [20:12] <Anigel> This has already been discussed on the forums where it was pointed out that 3 sectors per alliance would increase the alliance size limit and the number of private slots which a lot of people are asking to be reduced instead [20:12] <mAdAnA> ok... nvm then, sorry [20:12] <Anigel> kk [20:12] <Anigel> Lockon? [20:12] <Lockon> hey [20:13] <Lockon> My idea is something that an alliance could do for its members. I thought it would be a good idea to add in an aid empire option where an empire that is being attacked could recieve help from alliance members although i couldn't think of a way where it would count for return time [20:13] <Anigel> Aid in what way? [20:13] <Lockon> defence [20:13] <Anigel> Sorry no - this has been rejected many times by all the admins [20:13] <Lockon> k sorry [20:13] <Anigel> kk np [20:14] <Dabomb> heh [20:14] <Anigel> any more ideas? [20:14] <OsiriS> yes [20:14] <Toona> yes [20:14] <Anigel> for alliances only now [20:14] <Merrick> hey [20:14] <Anigel> OsiriS [20:14] <OsiriS> Message sent trought alliance center to a specific alliance is sent only to the AL's mail box ... my ideea is to send them to a alliance box from where the AL / AAL's show be able to read them ... [20:14] <OsiriS> and reply them from the alliance [20:14] <OsiriS> also [20:15] <Anigel> However the sender may want only the al to get the message [20:15] <OsiriS> he is sending to the alliance [20:15] <OsiriS> not to the AL [20:15] <OsiriS> and this would be more helpfoul when the alliance have a "paper" AL [20:15] <Anigel> Sending to the alliance is the only way to send to the al if you dont know who oit is [20:16] <OsiriS> well make 1 more thing [20:16] <Anigel> it would also encourage setting up of alliances where the al is totally inactive [20:16] <OsiriS> send to the AL -- sned to ALliance [20:16] <OsiriS> send [20:16] <OsiriS> there already are ... [20:16] <Anigel> Ok I will discuss this with dev and jam [20:16] <OsiriS> ok [20:16] <OsiriS> 1 more [20:16] <OsiriS> can I ? [20:16] <Anigel> quick then [20:17] <OsiriS> the global Message [20:17] <OsiriS> send a msg to all the ppl [20:17] <OsiriS> when U AL or AAL [20:17] <OsiriS> to inform them about things [20:17] <Anigel> No [20:17] <OsiriS> ok [20:17] <OsiriS> done :) [20:17] <Anigel> Use the notice and forums [20:17] <Anigel> This has been rejected too many times [20:17] <OsiriS> ok [20:18] <Toona> ola [20:18] <Toona> in merlin, to reduce the number of alliance members from 50 to something less, like 20-30 it would be more interesting to have more stronger alliances [20:19] <Anigel> I will ask cwilms about this as merlin is his server [20:19] <Anigel> I think he will decide based on the number of players last round [20:19] <Toona> k [20:19] <Toona> thats it [20:19] <Anigel> ty [20:20] <Anigel> Anyone else for alliances? Last call [20:20] <niar> me [20:20] <Zoid> nope [20:20] <niar> sort of a flag system for alliance center / forums, have a hidden forum you could choose what members would have access to it, like an HC forum, also be able to choose what AAL's have access to.. or any member :) [20:21] <Anigel> Arent you just going to have everyone asking for access to it then? [20:22] <niar> no because you would need more privacy with your hc [20:22] <niar> you cant tell your members everything sometimes [20:22] <niar> and its hard to get all of the hc on irc at same time [20:22] <Anigel> lets see if anyone else thinks it would be useful [20:22] <LAD> i do [20:23] <kamekaze6> i have one but i m not sure if it s been put forward [20:23] <TiT> i do [20:23] <SilverDragon> I think it might be a bit useful [20:23] <Taw> yes [20:23] <Anigel> !vote add an extra forum? [20:23] <Lockon> as do i [20:23] <porpus> yes [20:23] <r0ss> has it been discussed over amount of members in an alliance yet? [20:23] <r0ss> #development You need voice (+v) (#development) [20:23] <Zoid> but they could go and tell everyone esle afterwards [20:23] <Volrath> yes [20:23] <Dabomb> hmmm me thinks it is useful [20:23] <PH03N1X> looks good [20:23] <LAD> yes [20:23] <r0ss> oops [20:23] <Vertigo> me say yes [20:23] <HMA> yes [20:23] <Taw> but its a pri irc room [20:23] <Toona> yes [20:23] <Karasov> yes [20:23] <SilverDragon> Yes [20:23] <Turmondine> i do [20:23] <zez\|cs> yes [20:23] <OsiriS> yes [20:23] <kamekaze6> lol [20:23] <niar> yes [20:23] <LAD> !yes [20:23] <Lockon> yes [20:23] <tall> yes [20:23] <instantly> yes [20:23] <kamekaze6> flood [20:23] <M3ntal_Wr3ckag3> yes [20:23] <Anigel> !vote add an extra forum? [20:23] <TiT> i do [20:23] <Oracle> Now Voting on: add an extra forum? [20:23] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds [20:23] <Scoobie_Snax> yes [20:23] <B01N6> I suggest all the admins should get out more :D [20:23] <Karasov> yes [20:23] <kamekaze6> i have one for alliances [20:23] <Dabomb> yes [20:23] <TGO> no [20:23] <instantly> yes [20:23] <Lockon> yes [20:23] <SublimeWorld> no [20:23] <Vertigo> !yes [20:23] <zez\|cs> yes [20:23] <SilverDragon> yes [20:23] <Volrath> yes [20:23] <niar> yes [20:23] <Dura> yes [20:23] <Slinc> yes [20:23] <tall> yes [20:23] <Mordor> yes [20:23] <Bittersweet> no [20:23] <TiT> yes [20:23] <r0ss> no [20:23] <PH03N1X> yes [20:23] <asolarian> no [20:23] <lex-fuse> yes [20:23] <Ev0l_Rask> yes [20:23] <HMA> yes [20:23] <M3ntal_Wr3ckag3> yes [20:23] <Zoid> yes [20:23] <Danano> yes [20:23] <Mafiozo> yes [20:23] <kamekaze6> with regard to sectord [20:23] <OsiriS> yes [20:23] <Turmondine> yes [20:23] <Danano> yes [20:23] <Toona> yes [20:23] <mAdAnA> yes [20:23] <TiT> yes [20:23] <SilverDragon> yes [20:23] <Fonzy> yes [20:23] <GelaSiuS> yes [20:23] <Cimbom> es [20:23] <Cimbom> yes [20:23] <DaNgErUs> yes [20:23] <porpus> !vote yes [20:23] <Vertigo> I think it obvious :) [20:23] <Kamikaze> yes [20:23] <kamekaze6> !yes [20:23] <nav555> yes [20:23] <Volrath> wow lol [20:23] <Danano> very [20:23] <Cimbom> yesyessssssss [20:23] <Oracle> Voting over! [20:23] <Oracle> Yes 35 (88%) [20:23] <Oracle> No 5 (13%) [20:23] <SilverDragon> yes [20:23] <SilverDragon> w00t [20:23] <Anigel> Okay we will see what we can do [20:24] <niar> thanks :) [20:24] <Anigel> Okay Sectors [20:25] <Anigel> If anyone has an idea for sectors please just say yes [20:25] <kamekaze6> i have one [20:25] <OsiriS> can I have 2 more about alliances? [20:25] <Zoid> yes [20:25] <Cimbom> yessssssssssssssss [20:25] <Dabomb> alliances [20:25] <r0ss> yes [20:25] <Anigel> OsiriS No [20:25] <Scoobie_Snax> yes [20:25] <Karasov> yes [20:25] <OsiriS> ok [20:25] <Mordor> yes [20:25] <Dabomb> yes [20:25] <kamekaze6> i got one [20:25] <PH03N1X> yes [20:26] <kamekaze6> ok [20:26] <kamekaze6> if there s going to be many alliances in the same sec there should be no sector leader or sector fund but the news is good so you tell your friends who s open [20:26] <kamekaze6> this is for apollo [20:26] <kamekaze6> i m not sure if it was put forward yet [20:27] <Anigel> So basically your suggestion is either get rid of empire alliances or get rid of sector leaders? [20:28] <kamekaze6> yes [20:28] <kamekaze6> preferably the latter [20:28] <kamekaze6> in apollo [20:28] <Anigel> Sorry we will not be getting rid of sector leaders and we are unlikely to get rid of empire alliances [20:28] <kamekaze6> but [20:28] <Anigel> sl's are to integral to the coding of the game [20:29] <kamekaze6> the sec fund will be abollished in the empire alliances case [20:29] <kamekaze6> am i right?? [20:29] <Anigel> No [20:29] <Anigel> empire alliances still have a sector fund [20:29] <kamekaze6> so there will be stealing [20:29] <kamekaze6> ah ok [20:29] <Anigel> not if you vote for a good sl [20:30] <Anigel> Zoid? [20:31] <Cimbom> in every sector put a huge sign saying cimbom is cool [20:31] <Anigel> Please have your idea typed ready to just press enter [20:31] <Anigel> I would be happy to describe you in every sector [20:31] <Cimbom> that im cool [20:31] <Cimbom> :-D [20:31] <Cimbom> and u hate me [20:31] <Cimbom> ;) [20:31] <Anigel> I didnt say that just that i would be happy to describe you [20:31] <Dabomb> i have an idea for the Empire alliance problem [20:31] <Dabomb> alliance fund [20:32] <Dabomb> like one has in the sector [20:32] <Anigel> Like the one that was suggested when we discussed alliances but was rejected [20:32] <Dabomb> ? [20:32] <Dabomb> wuzn' here [20:32] <Dabomb> :P [20:32] <Anigel> kk Sorry no there wont be an alliance fund [20:32] <Dabomb> kk [20:33] <r0ss> i belive that the amount of private slots in sectors should be reduced to 3 or so to encourage more noob/vet interaction on eclipse. [20:33] <Anigel> There is a vote on this in the eclipse forums that is not backing you up [20:33] <r0ss> the sector leader plus the 5 slots still gives the vets an upper advantage over the unfortunate noobs. [20:34] <Anigel> I can see what you are saying but I believe the poll was winning on 5 spaces [20:34] <r0ss> ok, thanks [20:34] <Anigel> thanks [20:35] <Scoobie_Snax> For eclipse: Next to the "Home Sector" Link in sector browser, have an "Allied Sector" link right next to it. ex: Home Sector - Allied Sector [20:35] <Anigel> This is possible but if at any point in the future there was a move to 3 sectors per alliance then it wouldnt fit in [20:36] <Anigel> I will add it [20:36] <Scoobie_Snax> ty [20:36] <Anigel> yw ty [20:36] <Karasov> limit a maximum transaction from the fund to a ceirtain % (say half) of the total fund value, unless the empire it is being sent to donated more and hasn't got it back yet. that should prevent the bad SL's robbing the fund to some extent. [20:36] <Karasov> hard to code, maybe... [20:37] <Anigel> hmm [20:37] <Karasov> and maybe [20:38] <Anigel> All tehy would have to do though was send themselves half then half again then half again [20:38] <Karasov> add a 24 tick rule to sending aid to the same empire again [20:38] <Karasov> well that's what I mean - have to wait like 2 hours to be able to send again [20:38] <Karasov> to the same guy [20:38] <Anigel> I dont think that is a good idea - What if oyu have say 200,000 to build some stuff then get thrashed and need to buy ships [20:38] <Karasov> yeah that's the downside.... [20:39] <Anigel> Sorry not this round - try putting it on the forums see what others think and try next dev hour when all the admins are here [20:39] <Karasov> k ty [20:39] <Mordor> with empire alliances implemented...empires need to be able to combat abusive SLs, some people simply get out voted and have more friends in a sector than others, in addition new people do NOT know who is and isnt trustworthy, i propose that an empire be able to reject paying up taxes [20:40] <Anigel> So what would stop everyone saying I dont wanna pay taxes [20:40] <Mordor> well thats their choice isnt [20:40] <Mordor> thats the point of the fund [20:40] <Anigel> no [20:40] <Mordor> if you steal their money [20:40] <Anigel> the point is that it is a shared fund that everyone contributes to [20:40] <Mordor> and they see nothing of it... [20:41] <Anigel> if they steal everyones money then they arent going to keep thier votes very long are they [20:41] <Mordor> yes but they shouldnt pay for not knowing people [20:41] <Mordor> if they steal [20:41] <Mordor> they generally bully ppl into the votes [20:41] <Anigel> so dont let yourself be bullied [20:41] <Mordor> or the sl can even kick them [20:41] <Mordor> noobs anigel [20:41] <Mordor> not everyone knows every thing you can do [20:42] <Anigel> the number of times an sl can kick people has been restricted so they wont be able to do it often [20:42] <Mordor> some people have very basic knowledge [20:42] <Anigel> help them then tell them about it [20:42] <Mordor> yes and so it is hardly used [20:42] <Anigel> so you were just telling me the sl will kick them then saying they hardly do it [20:42] <Anigel> sorry i do not see what you are saying [20:43] <Mordor> im simply saying ppl easily can be out voted [20:43] <Mordor> especially considering priv slots [20:43] <Anigel> have a think about it a bit more and try it on the forums or next dev hour we cant just stop people paying taxes [20:43] <Mordor> its not hard at all [20:43] <Dabomb> ? [20:43] <Dabomb> me? [20:43] <Anigel> Well you did say yes [20:44] <Dabomb> and i wuz shot down silly :D [20:44] <PH03N1X> Here's my idea: If there's an abuse of power by an SL and the required amount of people in the sector keep him leader only because they're in the same alliance. There should be a way to prevent the abuse, besides voting for another SL, since SL is chosen by majority of the vote. Maybe you could add a vote system for any transfer of funds? [20:45] <Anigel> So if they have enough votes for sl what makes you think that people will not vote with them for transfers [20:45] <PH03N1X> this is true... lol [20:45] <Anigel> if the players support the sl they support them if they dont they can change thier vote [20:45] <Anigel> voting on transfers will just add a possibly long delay in getting aid to an empire [20:45] <PH03N1X> right... there still should be a way to prevent corrupt SLs [20:45] <Anigel> vote for a different one [20:46] <Anigel> have a think about it and see if you can come up with something [20:46] <crackopollis> with sectors ,some are powerful..others are simply not. i think in addition to the 1/6th rule there should be anothere.like a 1/3rule. like it would be if a sector is 1/3 your size (up or down)then you cant att that entire sector/ex. debbello was like 300mill sector net. othere sector net could be 5mill and they would break the crap out of them it really isnt that fair. [20:46] <Anigel> so who would they be able to attack? [20:47] <crackopollis> some one who is alltile bigger [20:47] <Anigel> picture one very large player and a load of restarts in one sector and the restarts cannot hit anyone because of the large players nw [20:47] <Anigel> and if they are the biggest then who do they attack [20:47] <crackopollis> o [20:47] <crackopollis> well somethin like 1/3 [20:47] <crackopollis> it would help out some noobs to the game [20:48] <Anigel> With the 1/6th limit a restarting player can attack someone thier same size whatever alliance they are in [20:48] <Anigel> if they restarted in a v big alliance everyone would be too big for them to attack [20:48] <crackopollis> right.. [20:48] <Anigel> there would be no sector they could attack [20:48] <crackopollis> o ic [20:48] <crackopollis> well.. [20:49] <crackopollis> it could be a little diff not exactly 1/3 [20:49] <crackopollis> that was just an ex [20:49] <Anigel> Sorry i think it needs more work I can see it being too restrictive [20:49] <crackopollis> right [20:49] <crackopollis> i [20:49] <Anigel> ty [20:49] <crackopollis> also have a ? [20:49] <crackopollis> i saw a admin post [20:49] <Anigel> sorry we are dealing with ideas here [20:49] <Anigel> is it related? [20:50] <crackopollis> ummmm...yea [20:50] <crackopollis> it was a [20:50] <crackopollis> idea [20:50] <Anigel> ... [20:50] <crackopollis> to add to the game [20:50] <crackopollis> cloacmable def [20:50] <crackopollis> cloakable [20:50] <Anigel> It has been rejected several times [20:50] <crackopollis> o [20:50] <crackopollis> lol [20:50] <crackopollis> didnt know [20:50] <crackopollis> kk [20:50] <Anigel> kk ta [20:50] <crackopollis> ty [20:51] <DrAcO[playing]> How bout if there is a voting system in apollo server to take out credits from the sector fund so greedy sl can't just take the creds if they just feel like it....like members of the sector can vote on who gets the creds too?and there should be like 2% percentage to increase the money you put in the fund...well i'm not just a member of the sector ,I'm also an sl ,the original good and trustworthy SL..... :D , In Merlin server [20:51] <Anigel> This is like what we discussed earlier [20:51] <DrAcO[playing]> ohh nm then [20:51] <DrAcO[playing]> hehe ty anyway [20:52] <Anigel> tbh there is unlikely to be any speciual development done at this stage just for apollo as it is only running between merlinrounds [20:52] <Anigel> ty [20:52] <Anigel> Any more on sectors? [20:52] <SublimeWorld> yes [20:52] <r0ss> not from me [20:52] <asolarian> yes [20:52] <Volrath> yes [20:52] <IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel> yes they suck [20:52] <r0ss> rofl [20:52] <Dabomb> lol [20:53] <SublimeWorld> what about a SL being able to assign an ASL, who they can e.g. only give access to the Sector fund. This empire might be a different colour, so that everyone knows who the two people are that they can ask credits from. This is a pretty obvious suggestion, and might have been shot down before. If so, sorry :). [20:53] <Anigel> It seems to double the people that can "steal" from teh fund [20:53] <Anigel> and the players have no say over who is asl [20:54] <SublimeWorld> hmm, that's true [20:54] <SublimeWorld> never mind then :) [20:54] <Anigel> have a think about it and develop it on the forums see if you can come up with a system for next dev hour [20:54] <Anigel> kk ty [20:54] <asolarian> Instead of the Alliance Sector link idea, I think this was mentioned in the forums before, can't we have a "favorite" sectors thing, where we could save 4 or 5 sectors on a list and can instantly travel to them through them to a link. Its the same concept, but this way, we can jump to our ally's sector and the sectors of an alliance we're warring. I'm not sure its implementable though, but its the same idea thats Scoobie had. [20:55] <Anigel> That was rejected by cw sorry [20:55] <asolarian> ok [20:55] <Anigel> ty [20:55] <Volrath> cut down the number of sectors and add those spots to the remaining sectors, so manybe eliminate 6 sectors. It might lead to better newbie transaction with vettes and also would lead to more powerful alliances, instead of having a few powerful and a bunch of crappy ones. [20:56] <Anigel> Changes to teh number of spaces per sector are not easily accomplished [20:56] <Volrath> I know [20:56] <Volrath> but it would solve a few problems... [20:56] <Anigel> unfortunately neither is moving players once they have created an account [20:56] <Volrath> such as the number of people in an alliance, cause some people want 3 sector alliance and such [20:57] <Anigel> I can see how it would be a benefit but we work on a guess at the start of a round how many spaces are likely to be required and just set the game up with that figure [20:57] <Anigel> changing spaces after a round has started is v awkward adn we could then suddenly run out of spaces [20:57] <Volrath> dont do it aftre the round has started [20:57] <Volrath> I mean start the round with less sectors [20:58] <Volrath> keep private slots and everything the same, it would lead to more randoms per sector [20:58] <Anigel> Then there is a very real risk of having complaints because we do not have enough spaces [20:58] <Volrath> huh? [20:58] <Volrath> no you would [20:58] <Volrath> you keep the spaces at 700 or whatever [20:58] <Volrath> you just eliminate 6 sectors [20:59] <Anigel> how [20:59] <Volrath> and those slots are put into the other ones [20:59] <Volrath> like eliminate galaxy 5 or whatever [20:59] <Anigel> Ive already explained we cannot change teh number of spaces per sector [20:59] <Volrath> and those 150 slots are put into other sectors [20:59] <Volrath> ok [20:59] <Anigel> so if we have less sectors we have less spaces [20:59] <Volrath> ok i have one more thing [20:59] <Anigel> kk [20:59] <Volrath> assiatant sector leaders [21:00] <Volrath> the person with the second amout of votes gets it [21:00] <Volrath> or even have it so people can vote on SL and ASL [21:00] <Anigel> Sorry I have not been convinced that asl is a positive thing [21:00] <Volrath> kk [21:00] <Anigel> Hence me asking the suggester to develop the idea further [21:00] <Anigel> ty [21:00] <Volrath> kk can do boss [21:01] <Volrath> ty [21:01] <Anigel> Last call for sector ideas [21:01] <Shadox> ... [21:01] <PH03N1X> I have one more Idea [21:01] <Shadox> I have one too... [21:01] <IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel> How about we all go down to london and protest to tony blair that sarah wont bring back empire alliances on eclipse!!!! [21:02] <Anigel> how about we all kick some sense into IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel as they will never listen [21:02] <Anigel> PH03N1X? [21:02] <PH03N1X> Again: idea with a vote for transfer of funds: but add something like: anyone in the SL's alliance can't vote on it to suuport him [21:02] <Anigel> Sorry no [21:02] <PH03N1X> k [21:02] <Anigel> Develop it on the forums [21:03] <Anigel> Shadox? [21:03] <Shadox> my idea is that a bank is introduced into the system where u can put money into it and specify a set number of days be4 you can get it back, you will not be able to get it back until those number of days are up, and you will have interest added on it about 2% a day [21:03] <Shadox> 5,00=4,00) [21:03] <Anigel> Sorry I dont think it will be added - try suggesting it on teh forums if you want the other admins to look at it [21:04] <Shadox> ok.. ty [21:04] <Anigel> I dont think it will really add much by way of benefit to the game [21:04] <Anigel> kk ty [21:04] <Anigel> Onto ships [21:04] <jjj> how about you listen sarah? you always ignore everybody.we play the game and it's no fun anymore.NO we don't like the def % and NO we don't want sec alliances [21:04] <Anigel> Any ideas [21:04] <niar> def % considered shippish? [21:04] <niar> lol [21:04] <Karasov> lol [21:04] Action: IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel eats anigel [21:04] <jjj> no [21:04] <Dabomb> def% hated [21:04] <jjj> it's what matters [21:04] <Volrath> yes [21:04] <Mafiozo> THAT WAS MY IDEA! [21:04] <Anigel> No ideas on ships? [21:04] <Mafiozo> shadox [21:04] <asolarian> IFA's like a spider, have sex and then eat [21:04] <Taw> i like def % [21:04] <niar> no but i have an idea for def % [21:04] <jjj> no small things that won't change much [21:05] <Shadox> ja wat is er nou... [21:05] <Volrath> bah [21:05] <Volrath> dervoice me [21:05] <Anigel> [21:05] <Volrath> yes [21:05] <Volrath> phone call [21:05] <Anigel> So why did you say yes then [21:05] <Anigel> Any market ideas [21:05] <r0ss> hmm [21:06] <Dabomb> alliance market (will be shot down) [21:06] <IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel> scrap it and build a mall [21:06] <DC> lmao [21:06] <Dabomb> lol [21:06] <Volrath> lol [21:06] <rivir> No, itd be better to basically remake all the ships [21:06] <niar> anything that can be done with market would be rejected anyway :p [21:06] <Anigel> Please keep it sensible either say yes or shut up [21:06] <r0ss> yes [21:06] <Bittersweet> yes [21:06] <Mafiozo> 5,00:4,00o [21:06] <IFA_r0x0rs_Anigel> shut up [21:06] <Dabomb> yes' [21:06] <Mafiozo> lol [21:06] <GelaSiuS> lol [21:06] <Slinc> someone kick ifa [21:06] <Anigel> r0ss? [21:07] <r0ss> raise the minimal price on all the ships, its way too low [21:07] <Anigel> Ships very rarely go for minimum price and you can specify your own minimum [21:07] <r0ss> hmm like ppl sell it to ppl in their sector [21:07] <Anigel> So? other people in thier sector can outbid them [21:08] <r0ss> hmm most of the time that isnt the case, because if they do theyll die. [21:08] <Anigel> lets see what e1 else thinks [21:08] <r0ss> its what happens on merlin at least [21:08] <jjj> once again lets talk about what matters [21:08] <Anigel> !vote raise ship start prices? [21:08] <Oracle> Now Voting on: raise ship start prices? [21:08] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds [21:08] <Bittersweet> no [21:08] <PH03N1X> no [21:08] <LAD> no [21:08] <Karasov> no [21:08] <Vertigo> no [21:08] <Volrath> no [21:08] <[Valheru]> no [21:08] <Taw> yes [21:08] <M3ntal_Wr3ckag3> no [21:08] <Dabomb> no [21:08] <Fonzy> no [21:08] <r0ss> yes [21:08] <Mafiozo> no [21:08] <rivir> yes [21:08] <Jam> yes [21:08] <Dabomb> no [21:08] <TGO> yes [21:08] <DaNgErUs> no [21:08] <Lockon> no [21:08] <Elendilmir> yes [21:08] <nav555> no [21:08] <HMA> yes [21:08] <Slinc> no [21:08] <SublimeWorld> yes [21:08] <Mafiozo> no [21:08] <niar> no [21:08] <crackopollis> yes\ [21:08] <Dabomb> no [21:08] <Penlod> yes [21:08] <DC> yes [21:08] <Mafiozo> no [21:08] <Dura> no [21:08] <Taw> yes [21:08] <Shadox> yes [21:09] <oi> no [21:09] <Oracle> Voting over! [21:09] <Oracle> Yes 12 (41%) [21:09] <Oracle> No 17 (59%) [21:09] <Anigel> There is your answer [21:09] <Anigel> ty [21:09] <r0ss> hmm thanx. [21:09] <Bittersweet> again i would like to see alliance market [21:09] <Bittersweet> we had it in the early beta [21:10] <Dabomb> i think that there should be different increments on which the market allows you to sell ships: I.e. 5,6,7,8 not 6,12 etc [21:10] <Dabomb> tick wise [21:11] <Dabomb> instead of 6 ticks then 12, shorter increment [21:11] <Dabomb> increments [21:11] <Anigel> Its only in 30 min increments as it i [21:11] <Anigel> is [21:11] <Dabomb> ya [21:11] <Dabomb> make it start at 25 then 30 then 35 etc [21:11] <Anigel> Tickwise they match teh increments on merlin [21:12] <Anigel> No the shortest is not dropping any more [21:12] <Dabomb> ok [21:12] <Dabomb> can we have it so that one has 30, 35, 40 [21:12] <Anigel> ty [21:12] <Dabomb> etc [21:12] <Anigel> no [21:12] <Dabomb> y? [21:12] <Dabomb> :D [21:12] <Anigel> like I say they match the ticks on merlin [21:12] <Anigel> soyou have the same number of ticks [21:13] <Dabomb> one has to wait 6 than 12 hours? [21:13] <Dabomb> then [21:13] <Dabomb> etc [21:13] <Anigel> Divided byt he time difference [21:13] <Anigel> what is the massive difference that 25 minutes will make to your life over 30 minutes? [21:13] <Dabomb> it seems somes would like their ships time a bit more specific [21:13] <Anigel> 35 minutes* [21:14] <Dabomb> nm about 25 mins [21:14] <Dabomb> but [21:14] <Anigel> change when you put the ship on the market then if you are that accurate [21:14] <Anigel> 35 minutes is not significantly different from 30 minutes [21:15] <Dabomb> 1 hour is significant [21:15] <Dabomb> too big of a difference [21:15] <Anigel> Sorry I dont see any need to change the gaps and remove the choice of higher durations [21:15] <Anigel> well pick 30 mins then if you dont want it to be an hour [21:15] <Anigel> thanks [21:15] <Anigel> Other / general ideas - The last section [21:15] <Karasov> yes [21:15] <I_lub_jam> Can we start selling people on the market, cus ships are boring? like 100,000 creds to abuse nav for 1 hour!!! [21:15] <PH03N1X> yes [21:15] Action: Shadox has ideas [21:16] <jjj> keep sec alliances,def %, make less private spots and disable the attack button [21:16] <jjj> that would keep the game going in the same direction as now [21:16] <niar> yes [21:16] <Slinc> yes [21:16] <SublimeWorld> yes [21:16] <Dabomb> hmmm [21:16] <Dabomb> might [21:16] <Bittersweet> yes [21:16] <Dabomb> :P [21:16] <Anigel> Just say yes or dont say anything [21:16] <Lockon> i wanted to say one more thing about the sector [21:16] <TGO> yesd [21:16] <TGO> yes [21:16] <Shadox> yes [21:16] <Vertigo> bad idea jam_lover... [21:16] <kinyo> yes [21:16] <nav555> hmmmmm [21:16] <Karasov> stealth scan shows defense and def % how about if it showed the number of ships the empire has as well? total number, not just the ones defending. [21:17] <Karasov> so it would still allow some calculations, even though risky ones [21:17] <Anigel> What does it show at the moment? [21:18] <Karasov> defense and def % [21:18] <Karasov> so it's basically onl yuseful for PL'ing [21:18] <Anigel> That is the detail you lose by hiding your scan [21:18] <Anigel> if you want a more detailed scan then you have to not use a stealth scan [21:18] <Karasov> well [21:18] <Anigel> That is the downside of that choice [21:19] <Karasov> I don't think it should show what ships they have [21:19] <Anigel> if we make stealth scan much more useful for calcing then there will be next to no need for ship scans [21:19] <Karasov> just how many there are [21:19] <Karasov> no matter what their status is [21:19] <Anigel> But that is what a ship scan does it tells you about thier ships [21:20] <Karasov> yeah, all about it [21:20] <Anigel> stealth scan is a quick and dirty scan [21:20] <Anigel> it gives less risk and less info [21:20] <Karasov> same risk if it fails tho [21:20] <Anigel> if you want to know about ships use the right scan for the job [21:20] <Karasov> okay then [21:20] <Anigel> Sorry I dont see any need to make the stealth scan more like a ship scan [21:20] <Anigel> thanks though [21:20] <Karasov> yw, ty [21:21] <PH03N1X> Add how much NW you get for land, roids, certain buildings, ships, and anything else that might effect it to the manual... TY [21:21] <Anigel> We have not and do not publicise the nw formula [21:21] <PH03N1X> bah - ty anyways [21:21] <Anigel> Every thing affects it how is that for an answer [21:21] <Anigel> ty [21:22] <Shadox> How about some sort of sector resource fund... [21:22] <Shadox> where you can store power, deuterium, metal etc [21:22] <Anigel> Its under discussion amongst the admins [21:22] <Shadox> k... [21:22] <Anigel> however it is looking unlikely [21:22] <Anigel> ty [21:23] <niar> Def % needs serious changes or needs to be scrapped, its hard on Alliance Leaders because palyers dont wanna break anymore just powerleech, and small empires end up being harder to break then the strnogest ones because of the way its set currently [21:23] <niar> maybe only being able to set it to 60%-100% nothing lower could make breaks possible and also only being able to change it once every 2 ticks because when they keep changing it its seriously impossible to break someone its ruinning the game, and its making alot of old players think of the game as no longer ecxiting [21:23] <Anigel> We agree [21:23] <Anigel> def % is under active development by jam [21:23] <niar> ok thanks [21:23] <Anigel> ty [21:23] <Slinc> Well, If the networth system is going to stay like last round eclipse, with research giving nw, then my suggestion is to allow people to "Enable" there research after they respawn so they can grow nw wise at the speed they want, because atm you get people with 2 vetties and an eagle at 3.5 mill nw who, if they arent in a good sector who break alot then its very hard for them to regrow. [21:23] <Slinc> By Enabling i mean, when you respawn you have your researched but it is disabled so it dosnt give you nw but u cant use it. But when u enable it, then u get the nw for it and you can use it. [21:24] <Anigel> We will be voting on something different in a minute [21:24] <Slinc> ok [21:24] <Slinc> ty then :D [21:24] <Anigel> ty [21:24] <SublimeWorld> I don't know if you've spoken about this yet.. but this has been proposed in the forums by Kiwi, and is pinned. It's the idea of having a research/tech tree, so that you can have a bit more diversity in tactics. You can research in different directions, e.g.: Probes, Attack Power, Resources. In combination with races, you can have someone who entirely goes for probes (Herogen + probe direction), but also someone who uses a combina [21:25] <Anigel> Jma has already asked for everyones input for this [21:25] <Anigel> Jam* [21:25] <SublimeWorld> I know [21:25] <Anigel> Please post any ideas regarding this in the forum thread [21:25] <SublimeWorld> but I thought we could discuss it here, now everyone's here anyway [21:25] <Anigel> we do not have time sorry [21:25] <SublimeWorld> ok then [21:25] <Anigel> that is why we use the forum so everyone can be a part of it and not just those that can be here at a specific time [21:26] <Anigel> ty [21:26] <Bittersweet> i know everyone will hat me [21:26] <Bittersweet> but i liked the old def% [21:26] <Anigel> lol [21:26] <Bittersweet> added a lot more strategy [21:26] <Bittersweet> you had to think [21:26] <Bittersweet> on both sides [21:26] <Bittersweet> tha's about it [21:27] <Bittersweet> the was it is now only vets set it and forget it [21:27] <Anigel> I do not know what is happening with def % but I am sure jam will see your comments when he reads the logs [21:27] <Bittersweet> at the begining [21:27] <Bittersweet> =) [21:27] <Bittersweet> i'll go hide now [21:27] <Anigel> ty [21:27] <Lockon> do i have permission to speak about a sector suggestion? [21:27] <Anigel> thats why you have been voiced [21:27] <Lockon> shadox's idea during the sector talk would prevent 'stealing' by the SL if it implemented that cash could only be donated to that person.. although it would be a necessitiy for the player to create a 'bank' account with the sector.. however, why not just create a sector bank? give this some inventive thought when u make your decision besides "no its a bad idea" [21:28] <Anigel> Sector bank accounts have been rejected sorry [21:28] <Anigel> I have given lots of thought to it on theother 10 occasions it has been suggested on the forums [21:28] <Anigel> ty [21:29] <TGO> The research give networth idea doesn't work well, if an empire respawns with full research, depending on their race, they have around 4,000,000 networth with an eagle and 2 vettes, it makes it hard for them to find their own targets that they can hit. The fact that if you are herogen, gives you more researches than any other race (on Eclipse), so they get an advantage in terms of networth aswell. [21:29] <TGO> Also, if you are at war, and you kill an empire that was 15mil, with full researches, you get a 15mil lead untill the empire logs on and respawns, that alliance will automatically catch up by 4mil, and as you can see from the previous round of eclipse's scores, that can make all the difference between #1 and #2 spot. [21:29] <TGO> Aswell as this, the resources don't give enough networth in my opinion, the more of each resource you get, the less it's worth. I think that the resources should be worth more networth to start off with than they are now, and there should be a cap where no matter how much more of the resource you get, the amount of networth each resource is worth stays the same. [21:29] <Anigel> wow [21:29] <Anigel> give me a sec to read all that [21:29] <TGO> np [21:29] <Anigel> tgo 1. We will be voting on a different way around the research issue [21:29] <TGO> k [21:30] <Anigel> resources give too much in other peoples opinions [21:30] <TGO> the problem is, once an empire get's to a point, they can't grow any longer, unless they get more land and roids. [21:30] <TGO> But [21:30] <Anigel> having a low cap on what each resource is worth will just encourage harding [21:30] <TGO> They get powerleeche,d and lose 500k networth [21:30] <Anigel> exactly tgo [21:30] <TGO> and that's how wars are being won [21:30] <Anigel> they need to keep active and attacking they cannot just sit there hoarding stuff [21:30] <TGO> not by actually killing ships [21:31] <Anigel> previously rounds were won simply by who had haorded the most cadets and power irrespective of what they did [21:31] <TGO> well [21:31] <TGO> you'd still need to have a well rounded empire [21:31] <Anigel> Using the new eclipse system they need to keep growing thier empire tokeep growing thier nw [21:32] <TGO> as it is, the empire get's to a point whre they can't grow anymore. [21:32] <Anigel> not once the minimum cap was reached you could just keep getting more and more and more of the same [21:32] <Anigel> tgo you have already said that htye can if they keep getting more land and roids [21:32] <TGO> yeh [21:32] <TGO> but if they get hit alot [21:32] <Anigel> so they can still grow [21:32] <TGO> powerleeched 5+ times [21:32] <TGO> they lost ALOT of networth [21:32] <TGO> I'm talking 4-5 mil [21:32] <Anigel> then the amount of stuff they has drops and the amount eachitem of stuff is worth goes back up [21:32] <TGO> 1/5 of the empires networth [21:33] <Anigel> yes if you get attacked then you do lose nw [21:33] <TGO> the thing is, wars will be about powerleeching [21:33] <Anigel> when they get that big they lose a lot of stuff when they get attacked [21:33] <Anigel> no more so than they were before [21:33] <Jam> this won't be an issue next round [21:33] <TGO> and that is more benificial to the alliance's networth than breaking [21:33] <TGO> lol [21:33] <Anigel> wb jam [21:34] <Anigel> apparently it wont be an issue [21:34] <TGO> alright [21:34] <TGO> ty [21:34] <Anigel> yw [21:34] <Shadox> ... [21:34] <Anigel> exactly [21:34] <Shadox> I've already told mine... [21:34] <Shadox> ^^ [21:35] Action: Anigel wonders why people say yes twice then just have one idea [21:35] <kinyo> i know there will be a nw vote, but i want to have it in the logs for u if necessary. hope u dont mind :) ##### for eclipse: giving less networth for research, like (research points * 3), not 10 . after u finnished ur research u get in range of even the largest empire. no matter how much ships and land u have. its very hard to survive, especially for newbies. changing that might help. [21:35] <kinyo> thats it [21:35] <kinyo> didnt know about the vote before [21:35] <Anigel> kk [21:35] <Anigel> Anyone else? [21:35] <Criticism_Is_Change> yes [21:35] Action: Shadox is out of ideas [21:36] <Sarah_Is_Slincs_Pet> anyone want a piece of pizza? [21:36] <Anigel> if you have an idea say yes now [21:36] Action: instantly kills bittersweet [21:36] Action: Shadox wants pizza [21:36] <Criticism_Is_Change> I do [21:36] <nav555> lol [21:36] <Slinc> haha [21:36] <jjj> <Anigel> def % is under active development by jam --- remove it until it's done [21:36] <TiT> lolm ifa [21:36] <Criticism_Is_Change> Powerleeching: [21:36] <Anigel> Criticism_Is_Change? [21:36] <Anigel> your idea [21:36] <Criticism_Is_Change> In order to stop powerleeching a little, get rid of Empire Defence Percentages. Making Breaking a lot more fun. (your percent is automatically 100) [21:37] <Anigel> we have just been told that it wont be an issue next round [21:37] <Criticism_Is_Change> poop [21:37] <Fonzy> I actually agree with bittersweet.. I rather like the current def% [21:37] <Anigel> I have a vote for eclipsers [21:37] <Dabomb> ok [21:37] <Volrath> yay1 [21:37] <r0ss> k [21:37] <Bittersweet> not the current [21:37] <Bittersweet> the previous [21:37] <Dabomb> the old [21:38] <Dabomb> :D [21:38] <Anigel> !vote lose researdch on respawn as you can do it all in under 24 hours on eclipse. Do we lose the research on respawn? [21:38] <TiT> BI GUYS [21:38] <Oracle> Now Voting on: lose researdch on respawn as you can do it all in under 24 hours on eclipse. Do we lose the research on respawn? [21:38] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds [21:38] Action: AKR is an eclipser [21:38] <TiT> bi sarah [21:38] <Criticism_Is_Change> no [21:38] <Hollin> no [21:38] <rivir> yes [21:38] <Bittersweet> no [21:38] <Cimbom> yes [21:38] <SublimeWorld> yes [21:38] <Cimbom> no [21:38] <Cimbom> yes [21:38] <AKR> no [21:38] <LAD> yes [21:38] <Dangerman> no [21:38] <r0ss> no [21:38] <Shadox> no [21:38] <kinyo> yes [21:38] <DC> yes [21:38] <Cimbom> what we talking about [21:38] <instantly> yes [21:38] <Dabomb> no [21:38] <Fonzy> yes [21:38] <Vertigo> no [21:38] <[Valheru]> yes [21:38] <Cimbom> :-D [21:38] <M3ntal_Wr3ckag3> yes [21:38] <Shadox> no [21:38] <jjj> no [21:38] <Volrath> no [21:38] <TiT> yes [21:38] <TGO> yes [21:38] <Slinc> no [21:38] <Alucard> no [21:38] <TiT> yes [21:38] <savage> yes [21:38] <jjj> lose nw [21:38] <Dabomb> cim research respawn [21:38] <Oracle> Voting over! [21:38] <Oracle> Yes 13 (50%) [21:38] <Oracle> No 13 (50%) [21:38] <kewken> no [21:38] <Toona> no [21:38] <TiT> yes [21:38] <Slinc> hahaha [21:38] <Hollin> lmao [21:38] <Volrath> rofl [21:38] <Dabomb> lol [21:38] <Vertigo> 50:50! [21:38] <AKR> lol [21:38] <Criticism_Is_Change> DOH! [21:38] <kinyo> lol [21:38] <Dangerman> lol [21:38] <Shadox> lol [21:38] <Anigel> Tied [21:38] <Criticism_Is_Change> haha [21:38] <Shadox> AGAIN!!! [21:38] <TGO> rofl [21:38] <Shadox> AGAIN!!! [21:38] <oi> no [21:38] <Shadox> AGAIN!!! [21:38] <r0ss> lol [21:38] <Cimbom> stfu [21:38] <Cimbom> fool [21:38] <DC> lmao [21:38] <TGO> stop spamming [21:38] <Slinc> stop the spam [21:38] <Criticism_Is_Change> do it over again [21:38] <Fonzy> rofl [21:38] <oi> lol [21:38] <Slinc> pwned [21:38] <Anigel> !vote lose researdch on respawn as you can do it all in under 24 hours on eclipse. Do we lose the research on respawn? [21:38] <Vertigo> :) [21:38] <Oracle> Now Voting on: lose researdch on respawn as you can do it all in under 24 hours on eclipse. Do we lose the research on respawn? [21:38] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds [21:38] <Dabomb> spammers [21:38] <Cimbom> everyone gets orgasms [21:38] <kewken> gj [21:38] <Cimbom> over talking [21:38] <TiT> yes [21:38] <Bittersweet> no [21:38] <I_Adopted_Anigel> i thought i was ur f00b sarah :( [21:38] <Vertigo> no [21:38] <Volrath> no [21:38] <AKR> no [21:38] <Slinc> no [21:38] <Alucard> no [21:38] <Toona> no [21:38] <Cimbom> yes [21:39] <Criticism_Is_Change> no [21:39] <Dabomb> no [21:39] <Fonzy> yes [21:39] <kinyo> yes [21:39] <[Valheru]> yes [21:39] <Dabomb> spammers [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <Hollin> no [21:39] <DC> yes [21:39] <Dura> no [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <Dabomb> spammers [21:39] <kewken> no [21:39] <M3ntal_Wr3ckag3> yes [21:39] <TGO> yes [21:39] <savage> yes [21:39] <Slinc> no [21:39] <instantly> yes [21:39] <Dangerman> yes [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <r0ss> no [21:39] <Dabomb> yes [21:39] <Zero_Tolerance> yes [21:39] <SublimeWorld> yes [21:39] <Dabomb> yes [21:39] <Vertigo> no [21:39] <Dabomb> yes [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <Volrath> no [21:39] <Dabomb> yes [21:39] <oi> no [21:39] <Cimbom> no [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <jjj> no [21:39] <Shadox> no [21:39] <Cimbom> no [21:39] <Jam> no [21:39] <Alucard> no [21:39] Action: Criticism_Is_Change pokes kinyo [21:39] <TiT> yes [21:39] <Vertigo> no [21:39] <Cimbom> btw i meant no [21:39] <Dabomb> no [21:39] <Cimbom> not yet [21:39] <Cimbom> :-D [21:39] <DC> rofl [21:39] <Alucard> lol [21:39] <Oracle> Voting over! [21:39] <Oracle> Yes 13 (43%) [21:39] <Oracle> No 17 (57%) [21:39] <Cimbom> yes [21:39] <Vertigo> :(( [21:39] <Slinc> :o [21:39] <Dabomb> lol [21:39] <Criticism_Is_Change> YEAH! [21:39] <TiT> bugger [21:39] <Anigel> Kinda close to call [21:39] <Anigel> Jam do you have anything you wana say or add? [21:40] <Jam> not really [21:40] <Anigel> kk thanks jam [21:40] <Anigel> Thank you all for joining in [21:40] <Anigel> we do appreciate your support