Here are the logs from the development hour held on 29th November 2003.

[8:01p] <Sarah> Hi Jam will be starting us off shortly
[8:02p] <Sarah> Just to let you know how things work
[8:02p] <Sarah> we will be going through several different topics and asking for your ideas
[8:02p] <Sarah> the topics will be
[8:02p] <Sarah> alliances
[8:02p] <Sarah> Sectors
[8:02p] <Sarah> Ships
[8:02p] <Sarah> Market
[8:02p] <Sarah> Other/general ideas
[8:03p] <Sarah> We will ask if anyone has any ideas in a section and ask that you just say yes if youhave an idea to put forward
[8:03p] <Sarah> we will then go through everyone with an idea in turn
[8:03p] <Sarah> ill hand you over to Jam now to cover ideas for Alliances
[8:03p] <Jam> alrighty then =P
[8:04p] <Jam> those with an idea, PM me with the word "yes" don't need any more then that
[8:04p] <Jam> an idea relating to alliances that is
[8:04p] <Jam> or suggestion
[8:05p] <Jam> let's here it acid ;)
[8:05p] <Jam> hear even
[8:05p] <acidrain> aye universal forums, all al's can talk to each other their, masked from AL of &
[8:05p] <acidrain> *
[8:05p] <acidrain> not members tho :d would be public forums then
[8:05p] <Jam> lol
[8:06p] <Jam> I think it's a fair idea, what do Cwilms and Sarah think? =p
[8:06p] <Sarah> I cannot see any reason against it atm
[8:06p] * acidrain slips Cwilms some cash
[8:06p] <acidrain> i can see one problem
[8:07p] <acidrain> who would mod it? lol
[8:07p] <Jam> lol that's what I thought of that as you said it
[8:07p] <acidrain> would proby have to be moded from admin panel or something
[8:07p] <Jam> could-do
[8:07p] <Cwilms> sounds like a farily good idea, but modding would have to be down to admins
[8:07p] <Jam> eclipse support team and such could do it I'd imagine
[8:08p] <Jam> added it to my list =p
[8:08p] <Cwilms> It might just end up being used to post targets for alliances though
[8:08p] <Jam> AKR: what's yer idea?
[8:08p] <AKR> how bout we try a round without alliances ?
[8:08p] <Jam> erm, it'd just lead to underground alliances
[20:08] <AKR> 2 see how good r the players
[20:08] <Jam> it was done on lunar
[20:08] <Jam> ages back
[20:08] <AKR> oh
[20:08] <AKR> k
[20:08] <AKR> sry then
[20:09] <AKR> devoice meh
[20:09] <Devo> I would like to see alliances need to declare war on other alliances before they can hit members of that alliance that way the rest of us would know who is at war with who
[20:09] <Jam> but how would you do it without forcing people to declare war simply to attack?
[20:10] <Devo> they can hit non allianed people
[20:10] <Devo> to hit an alliance you need to declare war
[20:11] <Jam> nav said:  mgiht be better as a:  to Kill an empire you have to declare war <-- that sound better?
[20:11] <Sarah> wouldnt you just end up with everyone at war with everyone
[20:11] <Sarah> and no one able to attack if your al was not online
[20:11] <Jam> nah I fixed AAL relations last game Sarah
[20:12] <Devo> maybe but makes it better to find an alliance and reason to be at war
[20:12] <Jam> this idea would need some, erm, tinkering I think, there would need to be a disadvantage to war or something :-/
[20:13] <Sarah> people will not find a reason in my opinion they will just declare war because there is someone open intehat alliance
[20:14] <Jam> erm, I think a vote would be good
[20:14] <Devo> ok I wass just tired of getting the messages please do not hit such and such alliance cause they are at war
[20:14] <Devo> then not seeing any war in the universal news
[20:14] <Jam> or maybe a forums thread developing this idea
[20:15] <Jam> think up ways to balance it out on the forums I guess and I'll look at it again then
[20:15] <Devo> kk
[20:16] <Goldberg> my idea has actuall to do with the strenght of an alliance
[20:16] <Goldberg> related to how big an alliance is.
[20:17] <Jam> ok, well, that seems to fit under alliances, so let's hear it =P
[20:17] <Goldberg> :p kk
[20:17] <Goldberg> well it was said before
[20:17] <Goldberg> its the 1/6th rule
[20:17] <Goldberg> only in alliance terms
[20:18] <Jam> hmm
[20:18] <Goldberg> large alliances cant attack alliances 6 times smaller than theirs or maybe even 4 times
[20:18] <Jam> interesting idea
[20:18] <Goldberg> would make it more interesting for smaller players
[20:18] <Goldberg> and for small alliances to train new people still withouth being able to defend
[20:18] <Sarah> It would mean that most of the time to top alliance would just be able to explore
[20:18] <Goldberg> not really
[20:19] <Goldberg> there will be alliances in range
[20:19] <Jam> it's got it's good implications, but jjj has a good point, people would use small alliances to hide war targets
[20:19] <Jam> nav saw that as well I see =p
[20:19] <Goldberg> well what is possible
[20:19] <Jam> would only work during sector alliances
[20:19] <Jam> and only with non-SL's for that matter
[20:19] <Goldberg> that it will be removed with a war declaration...
[20:20] <Goldberg> but then again everyone will declare war wich is possible
[20:20] <Sarah> Maybe put it forward again next time goldberg and wewill look into a negative aspect to war in the meantime
[20:20] <Goldberg> its just an idea maybe its possible to try (if people indeed do hide war targets well its sad)
[20:20] <Goldberg> ok thank you
[20:21] <Sarah> Can you please have your idea ready to send
[20:21] <Jam> hmm
[20:21] Action: Jam slaps Peco250 around a bit with a Hairy, Slimy, Smelly, RadioActive trout !
[20:22] <Sarah> next!
[20:22] <Ribena> `%%'`%% +v <-> Thank You <-> Jam `%%`%%,
[20:22] <Ribena> wow
[20:22] <Jam> you had an idea? =P
[20:22] <Ribena> ok no sec alliance junk its a pain in the anus
[20:23] <Ribena> ask the eclipse players
[20:23] <Ribena> and add me to an event
[20:23] <Jam> well, sector alliances aren't necessarily there for you to like them, it's there to give new players more of a chance to play the game with a decent lot of players
[20:23] <Sarah> The same players that have not seen them fully implemented yet and havent had a chance to decide?
[20:23] <Ribena> bah i will look after the lil players
[20:23] <Jam> doesn't happen
[20:23] <Jam> and it's not a matter of looking after them
[20:23] <Jam> it's a matter of including them
[20:24] <Ribena> that why i got an assistant
[20:24] <Ribena> anyone seen him
[20:24] <Jam> and them having the opportunity to participate in a "big" alliance
[20:24] <Sarah> anyone seen grandstanding?
[20:24] <Ribena> i will make a n00b alliance
[20:24] <Jam> also it helps stop the power locking of alliances
[20:24] <Ribena> and get peace with the fang bangers
[20:24] <Ribena> *gang
[20:25] <Sarah> We have let you do that for round after round and it hasnt happened
[20:25] <Ribena> i will do it
[20:25] <Jam> as much confidence as I have in you Ribena...no, they're staying as long as the respective server admin wants them on
[20:25] <Jam> =p
[20:25] <Ribena> wow you got confidence in me
[20:25] <Ribena> ok then add me as an event :P
[20:25] <Jam> well, I ment to have a smiley thing at the end so it looked sarcastic but anyway =P
[20:26] <Jam> onto the next idea
[20:26] <Turmondine> perhaps if an alliance relation called "Total War" was added that only allowed the two alliance in question to hit the other and only be hit by the other while in this state of war
[20:26] <Sarah> This has been refused many times on teh forums
[20:27] <Sarah> two friendly alliances will declare total war and no one in the game can hit them
[20:27] <Turmondine> but then they cant hit
[20:27] <Turmondine> anybody else
[20:27] <Sarah> in which case anyone in that alliance is stuffed if the alliance they are at war with is full of thier mates
[20:28] <Jam> and also 2 alliances in war could use total war with a wing as a source of protection
[20:28] <Sarah> People will just leave one alliance to hit another if empire alliances are in force
[20:28] <Turmondine> thats true, just thought it would prevent all the problems they have with accidently leaching war targets
[20:28] <Turmondine> people have*
[20:29] <Jam> it's a good try, but really you have to remember that people will use anything you give them to help them win a war, talking from experience ofc
[20:29] <Sarah> that is just people not looking at universal news before they attack
[20:29] <Sarah> stopping everyone else int eh game from hitting two alliances is a bad idea
[20:29] <Turmondine> but they dont always declare
[20:29] <Sarah> in which case they cannot claim it is a war and get upset if other people hit
[20:29] <Turmondine> still happens 
[20:30] <Sarah> Its upto jam but I think it is a bad idea
[20:30] <Jam> I don't think it's very practical
[20:30] <Turmondine> perhaps a tick limit? like it would only last 24 ticks
[20:30] <Jam> that's putting way too much trust in people to use it correctly =P
[20:30] <Turmondine> ok thats fine, was just an idea
[20:31] <xtceh> Id like to keep Alliance at it is. no sector alliance no private sector. limit of 50 minimum still was good. - me and acid first idea was private Sector like Starsphere private galaxy but with so many ppl whined bout it getting alliance 2 strong and with sector market abuse I drop my idea bout it.
[20:31] <xtceh> quick enought?
[20:31] <xtceh> ;)
[20:31] <Jam> I'd say so =P
[20:32] <Jam> so what your saying is go back to empire alliances?
[20:32] <Jam> erm or keep it around
[20:32] <Sarah> It is too late to ask that alliances remain the same
[20:32] <xtceh> for merlin
[20:32] <xtceh> not eclipse
[20:32] <Sarah> they have been killing the game for too many roundsand that is why we are changing them
[20:32] <xtceh> I dont care what u do in ur game sarah
[20:32] <xtceh> ;)
[20:32] <Sarah> for merlin as well
[20:32] <xtceh> what is teh idea for merlin then?
[20:32] <Sarah> we are asking for your ideas here
[20:32] <xtceh> sector alliance with random sector?
[20:33] <xtceh> I told mine
[20:33] <xtceh> keeping the game as it was
[20:33] <Sarah> okay you have had your answer :P
[20:33] <xtceh> yes
[20:33] <xtceh> .
[20:33] <Jam> if it was sector alliances it would most likely have private sectors, but what's on merlin next round is up to Cwilms
[20:33] <xtceh> jsut said
[20:33] <xtceh> keep it
[20:33] <xtceh> since it is beta 4
[20:33] <Sarah> just said thats killed the game
[20:33] <xtceh> beta 4 to rounds 6
[20:34] <xtceh> ok put random sector + sect allance and see if u get 100 ppl to play
[20:34] <Sarah> got over 600 to play eclipse :P
[20:35] <Sarah> next!
[20:35] <Jam> skeleton =P
[20:35] <skeleton> right
[20:35] <Jam> doh
[20:35] <skeleton> thanks
[20:35] <skeleton> this
[20:35] <skeleton> would be to allow alliances
[20:35] <skeleton> An nw limit- basically, if an alliance is under 50% of the other alliances size they can declare peace without the other agreeing. This would replace sector alliances
[20:36] <skeleton> so
[20:36] <skeleton> small alliancs
[20:36] <skeleton> can avoid being bullied
[20:36] <skeleton> and:
[20:36] <skeleton> My friend eclipse of doom posted this, but me and him came up with this-he has now quit sf. 
[20:36] <skeleton> I have been thinking about how fun lunar is and so on like many other people I suppose. It is sort of like Lunar but with a new concept. Instead of normal SF with alliances it would start with two sides. The Dark Side and the Good side or just two names. You would be placed in one of them, evening out so one in A one in B and so on. A sector would be either all a or all B.
[20:36] <skeleton> You could vote for your sector leader and also your side representative. The side representitive would decide on a name instead of A and B. It would have a sign up time and then a lock down, like lunar. They would fight until one factor remains. The SL would be able to donate sector fund to the Factor and the Representitve leader could hand out fund to other sectors. Sectors would be taxed to help the representitve get a strong f
[20:36] <skeleton> :)
[20:37] <Sarah> I would have to say no to the second option at least for now - it would involve a major recode
[20:37] <skeleton> k
[20:37] <Sarah> as for the first one the attacking alliance would just declare war again and carry on attacking
[20:37] <skeleton> welll
[20:37] <skeleton> there could be something to stop that
[20:37] <skeleton> like a non undeclare option
[20:37] <skeleton> for under 50% alliances
[20:37] <skeleton> etc
[20:38] <Sarah> It limits the choice of target too much people would just leave to go into a smaller alliance to attack and then rejoin thier own alliance
[20:38] <skeleton> kk
[20:38] <skeleton> but thewwe whole of janus
[20:39] <skeleton> wouldn't disband
[20:39] <skeleton> other 1 target
[20:39] <Jam> the 2nd one is a possibility for future rounds though, perhaps it's own game server
[20:39] <skeleton> etc
[20:39] <Sarah> maybe run it on lunar sometime int eh future
[20:40] <skeleton> thanks
[20:40] <skeleton> :)))))))
[20:40] <Jam> I'll make note of it
[20:40] <Peco250> thanks for that . . . . .lost my connection . . . . . . .  .  now !
[20:40] <Peco250>  I think that the alliance should be taxed and not the sector. . . . .if it revert to allinace method of last round whats to stop the sector leader not giving you any cah if yours and his alliances ar at war . . . . . . . . . .obviously he cant hit you................ but he can be mean about it................. by not giving aid . . . . . . . .or scanning u for others . . . . . . . . it happened to me and im sure there
[20:40] <Peco250> agreed?
[20:40] <Sarah> To abusable
[20:41] <Peco250> sure?
[20:41] <Jam> yep, you mean an alliance fund basically
[20:41] <Sarah> with empire alliances it would be used by multis
[20:41] <Peco250> cods my old  certianly abused that method
[20:41] <Sarah> with sector alliances the sector fund is affectively an alliance fund
[20:41] <Jam> which has been thrown out at at-least every previous dev hour =P
[20:41] <Peco250> sl
[20:41] <Peco250> yes
[20:41] <Peco250> mmm -(
[20:42] <Peco250> not fair my old sl totally abused it
[20:42] <Jam> shoulda gotten a new SL
[20:42] <Peco250> hed to delet then
[20:42] <Peco250> cos all the others got ncash
[20:42] <Peco250> how would it be abused more than current method
[20:43] <Sarah> believe me it would be
[20:43] <Peco250> ok what about getting tick from the fund instead of 1 person control
[20:43] <Jam> well, other then choose your SL's more carefully, that's all I can say really =P
[20:43] <Peco250> ok np
[20:43] <Peco250> see how long it lasts
[20:43] <Peco250> thanks or and out !!!!
[20:44] <acidrain> Timed peace's, you can set a peace to last max of 7 days that cant be breached, often to end a war alliances say ok lets cease fire for "x" days, tho with the timed peace it cant be breached, so you cant declare war during that timed peace. :d
[20:45] <Jam> I like it =P
[20:45] <Sarah> could be abused the same way as the exclusive war option
[20:45] <acidrain> how?
[20:45] <acidrain> only those 2 alliances could not hit each other
[20:45] <acidrain> they could hit anoyone els
[20:45] <acidrain> and be hit by anyone else
[20:46] <Sarah> what if an aal sets that on his mates alliance but the al wanted to war with them now cannot
[20:46] <Jam> it's basically be putting a regulator on SF politics, well, not a regulator, just a timer really
[20:46] <Jam> well, that'd be one short aal-ship =p
[20:46] <acidrain> time'd peaces only settable and accepted by al's then
[20:46] <acidrain> but i think ye should be able to trust your aal's :)
[20:46] <Sarah> wouldnt the ones that would break the agreeemetn anyway just not agree to them in teh first place then?
[20:47] <acidrain> im saying that the ones that break it are usually the ones that were dieing
[20:47] <acidrain> then they got time to rebuild
[20:47] <acidrain> then they hit to break it, pure eivl i say
[20:47] <acidrain> as goldberg told me in pm wouldnt work on eclipse cause of how long eclipse lasts
[20:48] <Jam> arch had a comment, but he's coming out with it slow enough =P
[20:48] <acidrain> but on merlin im sure alot of people would like it, especially all the al's out their that :)
[20:48] <archangel> It seems to me that many of these ideas are good, but the common response is that they will be abused.  This is no different than any other function, including sector alliances which are still being currently abused.  By abused, I mean not being used in the fashion that they were intended to be used in.  Why should they be any different?
[20:48] <archangel> Thanks, I'll go back into the normal crowd now.
[20:48] <acidrain> i cant see it being abused if its only settable by al's
[20:49] <acidrain> it would need a maximum of days tho
[20:49] <Sarah> It seems you are mistaking an opinion from teh forums as being truth We have not rejected many ideas because they would be abused. I have advised if they have teh ability to be abused so we can sort out how to make them work now.
[20:49] <Sarah> That does not mean we have rejected the idea at this time
[20:50] <Sarah> how about a vote on enforced timed peaces then?
[20:50] <Jam> sounds good
[20:50] <acidrain> yea
[20:50] <Sarah> If its settabel by als then it should be fine
[20:50] <Jam> I'll let you do that since I don't know how to use the voter thingy =p
[20:50] <Sarah> !vote Do we add in enforced timed peace treaty's
[20:50] <Sarah> hmm bot is ignoring me now lol
[20:51] <acidrain> id like to add, it has a maximum number of days to that question :d
[20:51] <Sarah> hmm bot is ignoring me now lol
[20:51] <Sarah> !vote Do we add in enforced timed peace treaty's
[20:51] Action: Sarah gives up
[20:51] <Jam> lol
[20:51] <acidrain> isnt the bot unvoiced?
[20:51] <Jam> nah it's in oracle
[20:51] <Jam> I think
[20:52] <Sarah> yes
[20:52] <acidrain> ah :d
[20:52] <Sarah> ill bring mine back in
[20:52] <Sarah> !vote Do we add in enforced timed peace treaty's
[20:52] <voter>  #development Vote:  Do we add in enforced timed peace treaty's
[20:52] <voter> To vote, type yes or no. You have 30 seconds
[20:52] <tanner> yes
[20:52] <Goldberg> !vote yes
[20:52] <ViVi> yes
[20:52] <Glen> yes
[20:53] <Skitt[CS]> vote for sector alliances
[20:53] <Jam> yes
[20:53] <DFA> yes
[20:53] <nav555> no
[20:53] <Goldberg> ues
[20:53] <Kavabunga> yes
[20:53] <Yoda> yes
[20:53] <Turmondine> yes
[20:53] <skeleton> yes
[20:53] <Skitt[CS]> yes
[20:53] <Dune> yes
[20:53] <Necro> yes
[20:53] <no_fear> yes
[20:53] <jjj> yes
[20:53] <Glen> yes
[20:53] <Jilted> yes
[20:53] <MarineX> yes
[20:53] Action: nav555 is too sexy for his shirt
[20:53] <acidrain> yes
[20:53] <MarineX> yes
[20:53] <Armageddon> yes
[20:53] <frall> yes
[20:53] <h_i_r_e> yes
[20:53] <tanner> yes
[20:53] <xtceh> yes
[20:53] <MarineX> yes
[20:53] <Laska> yes
[20:53] <Ev0l_Rask> yes
[20:53] <frall> !nav555 is a f00b.
[20:53] <Goldberg> thats obvius
[20:53] <Boogster>  yes
[20:53] <MarineX> lol
[20:53] <GenKreton> yes
[20:53] <MysticalParrot> yes
[20:53] <skeleton> plz don;y disreard stuuff for abusion-it makes more bad than good
[20:53] <tanner> nav is a homo
[20:53] Action: nav555 voted no just to be different :D
[20:53] <voter>  Time is up! 
[20:53] <voter> Vote results:
[20:53] <voter>  Yes 26 (96.2962962963%)
[20:53] <voter>   No 1 (3.7037037037%)
[20:53] <voter> End of vote!
[20:53] Action: skeleton exploits -m
[20:53] <MarineX> yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
[20:53] <nav555> tanner is ugleh!
[20:53] <tanner> BLEH
[20:53] <Armageddon> lol, 12 to 1
[20:53] <Sarah> skeleton rubbish abuse is worse than limited freatures
[20:54] <nav555> my idea is that for 2 alliances...split the galaxy's in half...2 sides...war the whole round :D  everyone dies :P  
[20:54] <Jam> sounds like skeleton's one idea =p
[20:54] <Sarah> that has already been discussed
[20:54] <nav555> might not work well for other eclipse or merlin just cuz they'd argue
[20:55] <Jam> with good side and dark side
[20:55] <nav555> but for farseer
[20:55] <nav555> :P
[20:55] <Jam> silly nav =P
[20:55] <Jam> I think that's it for alliances, if anyone has any suggestions that they didn't get out yet, PM me quick like a bunny rabbit =P
[20:57] <Jam> alpino: tanner said you had one?
[20:57] <Sarah> lol
[20:58] <Jam> lol
[20:58] <Jam> say your idea in the chan silly =P
[20:58] <Sarah> Have you got an idea?
[20:58] <Drago> y not have it anyone can attack anyone allied or not nw rule still apply
[20:59] <Jam> basically sounds like get rid of the forced peace
[20:59] <Sarah> why would you want to attack allies?
[20:59] <Drago> yes
[20:59] <Jam> so it's up to the empire on how loyal to be
[20:59] <Sarah> I think that would be a bad move
[20:59] <Drago> in eclipse peeps going to other alliances to
[20:59] <Drago> get peeps in their alliance attacked
[21:00] <Sarah> I have to ay no to that sorry
[21:00] <Drago> k
[21:00] <Sarah> anything left for alliances jam?
[21:00] <Jam> one more
[21:01] <Haldir> Sarah and other admins are very much advocating the training of n00bs and other semi-n00bs who have not been included in big alliances. I must admit that I try to rotate about 3-5 new players in each round. Why are the ambassadors and administrators of SF not doing what they preach? The entire Eclipse admin team does not play Eclipse, but they expect us to be better people than they are?
[21:01] <Jam> lol arch's
[21:01] <Sarah> because when teh admins play the game they get accused of cheating
[21:01] <Haldir> i kno
[21:01] <Sarah> this way no one can claim that we are cheating because we do not playt eh game we administer
[21:02] <Jam> anyway, onto sectors with Sarah
[21:02] <Jam> (hey, that rhymes)
[21:02] <Sarah> Okay we have to pick up the pace a little
[21:02] <Sarah> please make sure you have your idea ready or we will movce onto someone else
[21:03] <Sarah> if you have ideas regarding sectors (other then sector alliances) then please pm me now
[21:03] <Sarah> just say yes
[21:03] <Sarah> is it just jam with an idea about sectors?
[21:03] <Sarah> go Jam
[21:03] <Jam> lol
[21:04] <Jam> I'm just taking one of the forums I liked
[21:04] <Sarah> k
[21:04] <Jam> involving reducing the number of players per sector to 10
[21:04] <Sarah> what would the benfit of that be as I havent read that one
[21:04] <Jam> well, it would allow an increase in the number of sectors in the game without a drastic increase in the available slots
[21:05] <Jam> and would spread people out as far as sector alliances goes
[21:05] <Sarah> currently 15 spaces gives you a chance to have a few private spaces (where pivate sectors is on) a few active players and a few spaces for inactive or low activity people
[21:05] <Sarah> the lower number of spaces would seriously affect a sector if there were a few less active people
[21:05] <Jam> well, I sectors seem to be mostly inactive anyway
[21:05] <Jam> heh
[21:05] <Sarah> lets take it to a vote
[21:06] <Jam> alright
[21:06] <Sarah> !vote Do we lower the number of spaces per sector to 10
[21:06] <Oracle> Now Voting on:  Do we lower the number of spaces per sector to 10
[21:06] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds
[21:06] <Jam> yes
[21:06] <xtceh> no
[21:06] <Ev0l_Rask> no
[21:06] <jjj> no
[21:06] <h_i_r_e> no
[21:06] <MarineX> no
[21:06] <skeleton> yes
[21:06] <Yoda> no
[21:06] <Turmondine> no
[21:06] <Goldberg> yes
[21:06] <GrimFist> no
[21:06] <polytia> hey
[21:06] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[21:06] <tanner> sarah is PRETTY
[21:06] <archangel> no unless the 10 spots are private.
[21:06] <MarineX> no
[21:06] <FightersRevenge> no
[21:06] <Pef> yes
[21:06] <no_fear> yes
[21:06] <nyc> no
[21:06] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:06] <Skitt[CS]> yes
[21:06] <GenKreton> no
[21:06] <Dune> no
[21:06] <Necro> no
[21:06] <tanner> no
[21:06] <MysticalParrot> yes
[21:06] <Glen> duno
[21:06] <LAD> no
[21:06] <MarineX> Sarah is cool
[21:06] <MarineX> no
[21:06] <acidrain> yes
[21:06] <skeleton> YES
[21:06] <polytia> i whant to speach
[21:06] <Jilted> no
[21:06] <Jilted> #
[21:06] Action: Glen lies
[21:06] <polytia> i whant to speach
[21:06] <Haldir> YES
[21:06] <nav555> no
[21:06] <Tantalus> yes
[21:06] <Blinkie_Lights> no
[21:06] <MarineX> no
[21:06] <Peco250> no
[21:06] <nav555> what we vioting on?
[21:06] <alpino> no
[21:06] <Peco250> dunno
[21:06] <skeleton> i havfe suggestion
[21:06] <tanner> jam is hot
[21:06] <Boogster> would need high # of priv slots
[21:06] <Peco250> lol
[21:06] <DeathReaper> lol nav
[21:06] <Oracle> Voting over!
[21:06] <Oracle> Yes 11 (33%)
[21:06] <Oracle> No 22 (67%)
[21:06] <DeathReaper> nave just say yes
[21:06] <DeathReaper> or not
[21:06] <skeleton> darn
[21:06] <Glen> no
[21:06] <Sarah> sorry
[21:06] Action: Jam shrugs, you win some you loose some
[21:07] <Sarah> acidrain you have one for us
[21:07] <Jam> seems like most people's concern was private slots
[21:07] <Sarah> :) jam
[21:07] <acidrain> ill go abit later
[21:07] <Sarah> we can look into it agian next dev hour when peeps have had a chance at priv sectors
[21:07] <Sarah> ok
[21:07] <acidrain> i have to rethink it abit
[21:08] <h_i_r_e> how about making 1 sec the alliance
[21:08] <Sarah> ?
[21:08] <h_i_r_e> so the sec u r in is the alliance
[21:08] <h_i_r_e> no joining of other sctors
[21:08] <Sarah> just one sector per alliance is that what you mean?
[21:08] <h_i_r_e> yes
[21:09] <h_i_r_e> and to stop pll from jumping
[21:09] <h_i_r_e> put a ban on the pll account id he deletes before the emp is killed
[21:09] <Sarah> people do not jump succesfully most people that try it get deleted fior it
[21:09] <Jam> there was a round run on farseer with settings like that
[21:09] <h_i_r_e> okay
[21:09] <h_i_r_e> just a thought
[21:09] <Jam> single sector alliances
[21:10] <Sarah> I think that we need 2 sectors where there are so many sectors
[21:10] <h_i_r_e> np just a thought
[21:10] <Sarah> we will look into it next round and see what people think in a forum post
[21:10] <jjj> no sector kicking
[21:11] <jjj> that's all
[21:11] <Jam> lol that was going to be my 2nd idea
[21:11] <Jam> erm
[21:11] <Jam> not idea, but statement
[21:11] <Jam> well, kinda
[21:11] <Jam> I'm for it
[21:11] <Sarah> that was already agreed last dev hour
[21:11] <Jam> at least with sector alliances would allow removal of spy's or trouble making members
[21:11] <Sarah> so we will be implementing it
[21:11] <Sarah> anything else jjj
[21:11] <Jam> but there's no need for it when there are empire alliances
[21:11] <jjj> no
[21:11] <Sarah> k thanks
[21:12] <MarineX> what?
[21:12] <Sarah> you had an idea?
[21:13] <Haldir> i think we should have a Metal/Deuterium/Power Fund like with Credits, this has been mentioned countless of times but seeing as its now Sector alliances i think this idea should be used
[21:13] <Sarah> I believe cwilms was against this idea before
[21:13] <Sarah> cw are you there?
[21:14] <Jam> it would allow people to basically stop building their own empire and work in parts
[21:14] <Jam> it'd be much more efficient to have say one person make each resource
[21:14] <Jam> then just put it all in the fund and exchange
[21:14] <Sarah> that was it I couldnt remember the reasons
[21:14] <Haldir> i suppose yeah
[21:14] <Sarah> sorry no we wont be adding a resource fund/market
[21:15] <Boogster> umm, dunno how good this is
[21:15] <Boogster> wat bout automated donations from sector fund
[21:15] <Boogster> at certain periods
[21:16] <Boogster> of certain ampounts
[21:16] <Boogster> to every player in sector
[21:16] <Sarah> wouldnt that make it pointless having an sl
[21:16] <Sarah> the sl currently gives funds where tehy are required instead of just giving veryone cash back every x hours if they need it or not
[21:16] <Boogster> well sl is effectively alliance leader now, plus, automated  donations would not be all of funbd
[21:16] <Boogster> just part
[21:17] <Boogster> a % could be retained for the sl to distribute
[21:17] <Sarah> I think that it would mean there was isufficient funds left when people genuinely needed funds
[21:17] <Sarah> your sl should just lower thte tax rate if there are un needed funds inteh fund
[21:17] <Boogster> i was thinking it could help prevent abuse of fund
[21:18] <Sarah> all it does it make it like you never paid the tax in teh first place
[21:18] <Sarah> if the sl abuses the fund replace them
[21:18] <Sarah> sorry I dont think it makes much sense
[21:18] <Boogster> ok
[21:18] <Boogster> didnt think it would be much good
[21:18] <Boogster> :)
[21:18] <Boogster> byeee..
[21:18] <MarineX> How about having a trading center where and Adminster does the work and Players of SF can trade Metal for money and Money for Metal so that way people can grow faster and get better ships?
[21:19] <Sarah> that would mean that an admin has to be sat thereall teh time to admin it
[21:19] <MarineX> Or a bot can do it
[21:20] <Sarah> An admin one is not an option - a normal resource market has been dicussed before I would have to see the logs from last time before I could decide on that
[21:20] <Sarah> Ill look into the previous logs and let you know in the forums
[21:20] <skeleton> thx
[21:20] <skeleton> here me idea
[21:21] <skeleton> Sector Re create-With sector alliances, I think it is pointless that when u die, you must be put back into a different sector. All the effort you put into building a nice, community sector and when you have made new friends, you get killed. Shouldn’t there be an option to re create. When you die, if you log in within 48 hours you can click re create. This makes your account restart, and not be deleted.
[21:21] <skeleton> also-i offer to run a trade center
[21:21] <skeleton> when i am online
[21:21] <skeleton> :)
[21:21] <Sarah> no to your offer of running a trade centre
[21:21] <skeleton> heheheh
[21:21] <skeleton> thought so
[21:21] <Sarah> any manned trade centre has already been ruled out
[21:22] <Sarah> that would mean that you had to leave an empty space in teh sector for 24 hours
[21:22] <Sarah> or in your example 48 hours
[21:22] <skeleton> well
[21:22] <Sarah> that would mean that sector was at a disadvantage
[21:22] <skeleton> well
[21:22] <skeleton> an sl
[21:22] <skeleton> couls select ppl
[21:22] <skeleton> to protect
[21:22] <Sarah> we will be implementing a limited spaces private sector option
[21:22] <skeleton> and inactives would not get this pritection
[21:22] <skeleton> etc
[21:23] <Sarah> so the sl/al could let that player have a proivate slot if they wanted them back
[21:23] <skeleton> for one-i would not play sector games if this was noit added 
[21:23] <skeleton> yep
[21:23] <skeleton> like
[21:23] <skeleton> check ppl
[21:23] <skeleton> to reserve space for
[21:23] <Sarah> so if the sl did not want you back you had to take a chance
[21:24] <skeleton> yep
[21:24] <skeleton> because you said
[21:24] <skeleton> that otherwise
[21:24] <skeleton> space would be wasted
[21:24] <skeleton> so i am saying
[21:24] <Sarah> indeed
[21:24] <Sarah> thanks
[21:24] <skeleton> very useful helpful ppl could be kept
[21:24] <skeleton> etc
[21:25] <Necro> Thanks Sarah. I dont know if thereis one or not but a cap on how high the tax can be set would help to prevent abuse.
[21:25] <Sarah> it cannot be set above 10% already
[21:25] <Necro> ahh
[21:25] <Necro> wasnt sure
[21:25] <Necro> thanks
[21:25] <Sarah> no problems
[21:25] <ViVi> instead of having alliances you only have sector's. your sl can choose a asl and sign peace/war with other sectors. and have priv sectors, you can have up to 7 out of the 15 players in a sector
[21:26] <Sarah> thats what we do already
[21:26] <ViVi> is it?
[21:26] <Sarah> we are adding provate sector spaces next eclipse round
[21:27] <Sarah> eclipse is sector alliances so the sector is the alliance
[21:27] <Sarah> this is also in effect on farseer
[21:27] <Sarah> if it goes into merlin next round is upto cwilms
[21:27] <Sarah> ok?
[21:27] <ViVi> yea but as its sector alliances you might aswell ditch alliances
[21:27] <Sarah> no because there is the option then to have 2 sectors in one alliance instead of just 1
[21:28] <Sarah> that oiption would be removed otherwise
[21:28] <ViVi> ok then thats all
[21:28] <xtceh> Larger x Bigger Sector picture. for ppl who make Picture like jam I and others those 200x300 aint really a good art ;) beside I talked with N1AK and he said he would be easy to change so no real big deal applying bigger Sector picture.
[21:29] <xtceh> w000ttttttttt
[21:29] <xtceh> :D
[21:29] <xtceh> since no admin replyed my post into suggestion
[21:29] <Sarah> It would make the page layout terrible on lower res screens
[21:29] <Sarah> there is no benefit in a larger picture
[21:29] <xtceh> yes
[21:29] <xtceh> there is for us
[21:29] <xtceh> in SS picture a way big
[21:29] <xtceh> and no1 whines
[21:30] <Sarah> try putting it int eh notice or links so others can appreciate it full size but there is not a megabyte download every time you browse your sector
[21:30] <xtceh> vote at least
[21:30] <xtceh> ask ppl
[21:30] <Sarah> no
[21:30] <xtceh> well
[21:30] <Sarah> there is no need for it and it would slow down browsing times
[21:30] <Jam> Sarah: I don't think he's talking about phenomonably larger
[21:30] <xtceh> picture are saved into ur cookie
[21:30] <Sarah> they are not
[21:30] <xtceh> so if ppl cheats and have to delete cookie yes it can be annoying :P
[21:30] <xtceh> ^^
[21:30] <Sarah> they may possibly be saved in your cache
[21:31] <Jam> nah they're saved into cache xtc and not of people use cache
[21:31] <xtceh> well blame em
[21:31] <xtceh> I use it
[21:31] <xtceh> :)
[21:31] <Jam> lol
[21:31] <xtceh> but still
[21:31] <Sarah> I do not see any benefit in redesigning the layout just so you can have a 300*400 picture
[21:31] <xtceh> no need 45674389437 x 469840968460943
[21:31] <xtceh> jsut a little bigger
[21:31] <Sarah> do smaller artwork
[21:31] <Sarah> sorry no
[21:31] <xtceh> 300x 400 is still better
[21:31] <xtceh> u jsut said that
[21:32] <Sarah> Not if you have to view it at low res this is after all a text game not a graphical one
[21:32] <Warlord> Either add more options to galaxies or get rid of them. There is no use of the GL. But perhaps add in Galaxy Forums, Galaxy Lotto (moderated by the GL), etc. etc.
[21:32] <Sarah> there arealready too many forums when we implement this al's only one
[21:33] <Sarah> yet another forum on top of the existing ones is pretty pointless
[21:33] <Warlord> what about a lotto
[21:33] <Sarah> a game wide lotto is something that is already being considered
[21:33] <Warlord> well where was i :P, ty for the time
[21:33] <Sarah> thanks
[21:34] <ViVi> sector transfers: if a empire in a sector doesnt like his sector can he can move to a new one
[21:34] <Sarah> no
[21:34] <Sarah> too many people try to hop sector as it is to get into one with thier mates
[21:34] <Sarah> this is just giving them permission to sector hop
[21:34] <ViVi> he would have to trade with somone who is willing to swap with him
[21:34] <Sarah> it definately would not be considered on a swap basis
[21:35] <ViVi> ok
[21:35] <ViVi> you can -v me now
[21:35] <Sarah> jam whatr do you think
[21:35] <Sarah> maybe as a one off click here to change sector thing
[21:35] <Sarah> or would it make it too easy to try toget into a specific sector
[21:35] <Jam> if it was once a round, it costed a lot, and it disabled an empire for a given time it wouldn't be too bad
[21:36] <Jam> but it'd have to use the private slots in the sector
[21:36] <Sarah> if they just had one chance that may be ok
[21:36] <Sarah> please post it int eh forum so it canbe developed a bit more and we will see when it has had a bitof work done on the idea
[21:36] <ViVi> yea i spose
[21:36] <ViVi> ok
[21:37] <Turmondine> i dont know if this fits this topic but why not add slower return time from ships when attacking sectors in other galaxys 
[21:37] <Jam> or perhaps a faster return time for closer galaxies - return time is already quite high as far as merlin goes
[21:37] <Turmondine> that works to
[21:38] <Turmondine> either way it would define galaxys better, give them a better purpose
[21:38] <Jam> 18 hours to get some fecking ships back, sheesh =P
[21:38] <Sarah> possibly
[21:38] <Sarah> lets vote on it
[21:38] <Turmondine> yay
[21:38] <Sarah> !vote do we make it take longer to attack across galaxys
[21:38] <Oracle> Now Voting on:  do we make it take longer to attack across galaxys
[21:38] <Oracle> Type 'yes' or 'no' - You have 30 seconds
[21:38] <Turmondine> yes
[21:38] <xtceh> no
[21:38] <tanner> it adds realism to the game
[21:38] <MarineX> SARAH IS COOL
[21:38] <Necro> no
[21:38] <Yoda> yes
[21:38] <xtceh> no
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[21:38] <MysticalParrot> yes
[21:38] <Devo> no
[21:38] <tanner> yes
[21:38] <MarineX> yes
[21:38] <Peco250> no
[21:38] <skeleton> yes
[21:38] <LAD> yes
[21:38] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:38] <Colonel> no
[21:38] <GrimFist> yes
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <ViVi> ye
[21:38] <Warlord> no
[21:38] <Jilted> yes
[21:38] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:38] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:38] <GenKreton> no
[21:38] <tanner> it makes it realistic
[21:38] <Wayland> yes
[21:38] <mjrb> no
[21:38] <Goldberg> no
[21:38] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:38] <jjj> no
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <MarineX> yes
[21:38] <GrimFist> yes
[21:38] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:38] <Jam> yes
[21:38] <nav555> no
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:38] <Boogster> yupity up
[21:38] <tanner> yes
[21:38] <Peco250> no
[21:38] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:38] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <tanner> yes
[21:38] <acidrain> no to longer accross gals
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <Haldir> yes
[21:38] <xtceh> its ghey
[21:38] <Peco250> no
[21:38] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:38] <no_fear> yes
[21:38] <Durran> Omg.
[21:38] <tanner> yes
[21:38] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:38] <Peco250> no
[21:38] <Blinkie_Lights> no.. too much like SK
[21:38] <Boogster> yes
[21:38] <ViVi> yes
[21:38] <skeleton> add realism
[21:38] <skeleton> yes
[21:38] <GenKreton> no
[21:38] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:38] <MarineX> yes
[21:39] <Peco250> no
[21:39] <xtceh> <censored> turm
[21:39] <xtceh> ^^
[21:39] <acidrain> yes to close gals
[21:39] <MarineX> SARAH IS COOL
[21:39] <acidrain> :d
[21:39] <MarineX> yes
[21:39] <acidrain> no
[21:39] <Peco250> no
[21:39] <ViVi> yes
[21:39] <tanner> yes to closer :)
[21:39] <Peco250> no
[21:39] <DeathReaper> yes
[21:39] <DeathReaper> ..
[21:39] <ViVi> yes
[21:39] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:39] <Oracle> Voting over!
[21:39] <Oracle> Yes 16 (53%)
[21:39] <Oracle> No 14 (47%)
[21:39] <skeleton> yes
[21:39] <Skitt[CS]> no
[21:39] <Sarah> that is a bit close to call
[21:39] <Jam> it'd have to loop around
[21:39] <Sarah> please can you post the idea on teh forums and we will run a longer poll to get a better idea
[21:39] <Jam> for example galaxy 1 would also be close to the last galaxy
[21:39] <Turmondine> ok
[21:39] <Sarah> thanks
[21:40] <LAD> wot about having a alliance market it will help all of your alliance grow as there is only 2 sectors per alliance u will need all the help u can get
[21:40] <Jam> lol
[21:40] Action: Jam wonders how many more times that is going to be asked
[21:40] <Sarah> Last one for sectors
[21:41] <Haldir> well we have Sector alliances so how about Galaxy alliances, it would be total chaos
[21:41] <Sarah> actually the next one is the last one
[21:41] <Sarah> still to hear from yoda
[21:41] <Sarah> thts like what we were on about with skeletons game
[21:42] <Yoda> my idea is to have an SL be able to give sector members a position like Treasurer who can give out funds so that an SL can give away power and so is harder for sl to abuse power
[21:42] <Sarah> wouldnt the ones that were going to abuse it just not give it to someone else to do?
[21:42] <Yoda> possibly yes
[21:43] <Yoda> but then if someone else has access you ain't gotta wait till the sl gets on for summin to be done
[21:43] <Sarah> jam what do you think - I cannot really see any advantage from this
[21:43] <Jam> it's an attempt to stop SL's from abusing (always state the obvious first ;))
[21:43] <Jam> but yeah there wouldn't be much of an advantage
[21:44] <Yoda> ok you can devoice now
[21:44] <Sarah> indeed but I think it would only affect the ones that didnt want to abuse aas the others wouldnt give the funds to someone else if they wanted to abuse them
[21:44] <Sarah> k ta
[21:44] <Jam> and position the SL could deligate would either be A) Not deligated or B) Deligated to someone else who would just help abuse
[21:44] <Sarah> Okay jam Ill pass it back to you for ships - I think we need to just ask in channel instead ousing pm for ideas though
[21:44] <Jam> but it's tough to scroll up and down
[21:45] <Jam> goldberg had one for sectors I think though
[21:45] <Sarah> its taking too long cos poeple keep coming up with more an dmore ideas
[21:45] <Sarah> we will be here all night
[21:45] <Jam> lol yeah at this rate
[21:45] <Sarah> he has only just messaged me now so he was too late sorry
[21:45] <Sarah> he will have to wait till other ideas
[21:45] <Jam> I'll get all the missed ideas at the end of dev hour
[21:45] <Sarah> besides jam copy and paste it to another window
[21:45] <Jam> how about that
[21:46] <Sarah> thats what other ideas etc is for
[21:46] <acidrain> sector forum mod pass, its simple, its like alliance forums
[21:46] <acidrain> i go shower now
[21:46] <acidrain> peace
[21:46] <acidrain> :d
[21:46] <Jam> lol
[21:46] <Jam> silly acid
[21:46] <Sarah> but we have people waiting for thier section
[21:46] <Sarah> anyway go for it jam
[21:46] <Jam> ok, well, onto ships
[21:47] <Jam> those with ideas for ships please PM me, simply a "yes" will do
[21:48] <Warlord> Expanding upon the idea of how long ships return based on galaxy targets, cut ship times in half (for return time) and add the other half to the attack time, so with a SF - 10 tix to get there, and 10 tix to return, thus adding in a realistic ship time.
[21:48] <Jam> I don't see anything wrong with that - though the leeching system would not be able to abbide by that, leeching times shouldn't be able to get shorter or it'd be chaos =P
[21:49] <Jam> sleep would become non-existant for those who are obsessed with first place =P
[21:49] <Warlord> from send out to redock times would be the same...
[21:49] <Jam> ah you mean 10 ticks before then 10 ticks after
[21:49] <Warlord> yes
[21:50] <Warlord> cause, if u send ships, they cant get there instantly...
[21:50] <Warlord> they must travel
[21:50] <Jam> well, that's the logical way to think about it, but do we really want to be able to watch our ships travel for 10 ticks? =P
[21:50] <Sarah> that is impossible without recoding the entire game
[21:50] <Jam> before hand that is
[21:50] <Sarah> delay before ships attack is used in too many other games and causes much to much confusion regarding attack
[21:51] <Warlord> yeh yeh, good point ;)
[21:51] <Jam> what sarah said =p
[21:51] <Sarah> you would never be able to attack anyone as they would buy half a dozen ships whilst your fleet was still witing to get there
[21:52] <ViVi> how about having a weak ship in defence and atacking but is an amazing explorer
[21:52] <Jam> erm doesn't eclipse have an explorer now?
[21:52] <Sarah> we are starting o add special feature ships like this
[21:53] <Sarah> eclipse has seen two special ships introduced this round with more tofollow
[21:53] <Sarah> the background work has been done to allow this now so look out for more special ship classes
[21:53] <Skitt[CS]> My quesstin is that the Cruser pic is just gay and i would like you to take the OLD Sovereign pic and make that the new Cruser pic.
[21:53] <Jam> ;p;
[21:53] <Skitt[CS]> :D
[21:53] <Jam> lol*
[21:53] <Skitt[CS]> come on
[21:53] <Jam> some suggestion =P
[21:54] <Skitt[CS]> i like the old and new Sov pic
[21:54] <Skitt[CS]> so...
[21:54] <Sarah> the old pic will prolly be reused for a sepcial ship sometime soon if it is not already changed
[21:54] <Skitt[CS]> i waited 1:54 min to ask that come on
[21:54] <Skitt[CS]> COME ON
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> i hate the cruser pic
[21:55] <Jam> lol
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> its mested up
[21:55] <Jam> then don't look at it (=
[21:55] <Sarah> unless jam or someone else would like to contribute some more ship pictures (the contributer MUST own copyright of the pictures though)
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> you own the pic
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> it was used before
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> so..
[21:55] <Jam> but that is going to be reused for something else she said
[21:55] <Skitt[CS]> it will take like 10 sec
[21:55] <Sarah> like ive said the picture is going to be reused anyway
[21:56] <Skitt[CS]> ues another
[21:56] <Jam> anyway yeah, next question I guess =P
[21:56] <Jam> erm not qquestion
[21:56] <Jam> idea
[21:56] <Skitt[CS]> Grrrrrrr
[21:56] <skeleton> thx
[21:56] <skeleton> Carriers: I think everyone knows what these are. For those not in the know, there would be a special research for grand ship type called a carrier. It would be able tom carry ships to a target and bring them back more quickly. There is a weight limit for each class eg as follows.
[21:56] <skeleton> Light-can carry 500 points
[21:56] <skeleton> Regular-can carry 1000 points
[21:56] <skeleton> Heavy-Can carry 2000 points
[21:56] <skeleton> Each ships would have a point value 10% of its power core. The carrier would be weighed down. The % of which it is not full would be taken from its main return time-15 ticks-so if it was empoty it would return at 0 ticks./ it cannot leech however, ad it would have no atk, and also it cannot have a return time less that than 4 ticks. The only atk the ships gets is the amount the ships Inside provide atk :)
[21:56] <skeleton> simple
[21:56] <skeleton> :)
[21:56] <Jam> sounds like the old fighter system to a degree
[21:57] <skeleton> it has been suggested a lot
[21:57] <skeleton> on forums
[21:57] <Sarah> which has been refused a lot
[21:57] <skeleton> kk
[21:57] <Jam> the latest ship stats have been fine for merlin at least
[21:57] <Jam> people have been growing throughout the round
[21:57] <Jam> ship-wise
[21:58] <skeleton> um
[21:58] <skeleton> ok
[21:58] <Sarah> [Bampot] Fighters
[21:58] <Sarah> [Bampot] Was shot down last time but put it to vote. In the test R1 style, set number of bays on
[21:58] <Sarah> [Bampot] each ship. By giving the sov more than the dread would give a choice of best ship since
[21:58] <Sarah> [Bampot] fighters could absorb damage and be destroyed.
[21:58] <Sarah> [Cwilms] 1 suggestion per pers, and this has been rejected b4
[21:58] <Sarah> [Cwilms] for many reasons
[21:58] <Jam> with some of the new ships i'd imagine "NW Whoring" will be reduced on eclipse as well
[21:58] <skeleton> k
[21:58] <skeleton> fine
[21:58] <skeleton> gtg now
[21:59] <MarineX> We should get new ships (not as great as the Star-Fury but something good) Dreadnoughts and corvettys there getting kinda old how about and ship made for sencorys a ship made for fighting a ship for defence I know bah bah there is already a ship for snecory and defence BUT make it where thats the ONLY thing it can do that way the Networth would keeps its pace I am not talking about stuff like cruise D because I use that ship to attack
[21:59] <MarineX> good?
[21:59] Action: Sarah wonders why you pay the higher maintainance just to use a ship that is the same as one that would cost you less when attacking
[22:00] Action: MarineX says becausse its ME
[22:00] <Sarah> we are working on new ship types as ive already said
[22:00] <MarineX> yeah i know
[22:00] <MarineX> i saw that
[22:00] <MarineX> but what about
[22:00] <MarineX> Hyper Drive
[22:00] <MarineX> or WarpSPeed
[22:00] <Sarah> ?
[22:00] <Jam> erm
[22:01] <Sarah> so what is the downside
[22:01] <MarineX> It will recharge
[22:01] <Sarah> it gets toyour enemy in 2 ticks but has no attack power to balance it out
[22:01] <Sarah> to your enemy and back*
[22:01] <MarineX> yeah
[22:02] <Sarah> no point sending it if it has 0 attack power
[22:02] <Sarah> :P
[22:02] <MarineX> but
[22:02] <MarineX> It attacks first
[22:02] <Sarah> needs a lot of work - pls post it in the forums
[22:02] <MarineX> you can umm -v
[22:02] <Sarah> you cannot have a positive without a negative
[22:03] <Goldberg> added to what warlord said.. you wouldnt be able to calculate breaks cause a lot of things can happen in 10 tix... or whatever tix it is especially on merlin (%change) ships build bought etc
[22:03] <Goldberg> btw i wanna thank the admins for having this development round
[22:03] <Jam> Warlord's idea has already been rejected I thought? lol
[22:03] <Goldberg> it gives a great oppertunity to make decent ideas
[22:03] <Goldberg> and well i like it very much
[22:03] <Sarah> we try
[22:03] <Jam> lol yeah
[22:03] <Goldberg> so thank you
[22:04] <Durran> Anyway.
[22:04] <Durran> Instead of having just mere different types of ships.
[22:04] <Durran> Ie. Cruiser D, Vulture.
[22:04] <Durran> How about a reconfiguration of ships?
[22:04] <Durran> Applying to all ships, researchable.
[22:05] <Durran> Ie. Research Configuration, X Research Points, giving you the power to upgrade your ships to that?
[22:05] <Durran> Those ships would have a higher upkeep cost, -10% or so on offense, and +20% on defense.
[22:05] <Jam> lol I think this idea was suggested last dev hour
[22:05] <Jam> it sounds familiar
[22:05] <Durran> Well.
[22:05] <Durran> Just having a few specialized ships is too corny.
[22:05] <Durran> And everyone upgrades to Star Fury anyway.
[22:05] <Durran> It seems like out of 12 different ships, you only use half of them.
[22:06] <Durran> So if you condense and delete extraneous types of ships..
[22:06] <Sarah> actually I have yet to see a ship type that isnt used
[22:06] <Durran> Sarah.
[22:06] <Sarah> it may be that you dont use some of them but other people do
[22:06] <Durran> They're only used because the guy didn't have the resource to build the next one.
[22:06] <Durran> But they are no different than what he would build had he the resources.
[22:06] <Sarah> not always we are introducing different features in different levels of ships
[22:06] <Durran> It's not a matter of tactical choice.
[22:06] <Sarah> inpart it will be
[22:07] <Durran> What?
[22:07] <Sarah> it wil be a tactical choice and not just a case of what you can afford to make
[22:07] <Durran> There's no point to building a smaller ship if you have the resources for a larger one.
[22:07] <Durran> Including MCost and build time.
[22:07] <Sarah> there is if it has different features that the large one does not
[22:07] <Durran> But they don't.
[22:07] <Sarah> which is what we are doing
[22:08] <Sarah> ive already said 4 times that we are doing that already
[22:08] <Durran> Yes.
[22:08] <Durran> But you're suggesting individual types aren't you?
[22:08] <Sarah> like the vulture is a smaller ship that you would build if you were an explorer even though you could build a larger ship
[22:08] <Durran> I'm saying instead of having individual specialized ships, each ship can be specialized.
[22:08] <Sarah> that has been rejected before
[22:08] <Sarah> too complex for people to work out what they are attacking
[22:09] <Durran> They name would change.
[22:09] <Durran> *The
[22:09] <Durran> Ie. Dreadnought D.
[22:09] <Sarah> so in other words it s alot of specialised ships
[22:09] <Durran> Or Talon Ex.
[22:09] <Durran> The first build is the same.
[22:09] <Durran> There would be buttons to reconfigure them.
[22:09] <Durran> In the modify screen.
[22:09] <Sarah> jam this has been rejected before hasnt it?
[22:09] <Jam> it was thrown out before because it would involve too many code changes in too short a time
[22:10] <Durran> Heh.
[22:10] <Sarah> sorry Durran no
[22:10] <Jam> but it's an interesting idea
[22:10] <Jam> just I don't think it's one for R7 =P
[22:10] <Durran> All right.
[22:10] <Jam> maybe in the future
[22:10] <Durran> But the new ships better be interesting :p
[22:10] <Jam> it should be =P
[22:11] <Devo> get rid of percentage defence it never helped the small empires and only made it easier for big ones to get bigger.  I found it made it horribly easy for the bigger empires to break and still feel safe took all the fun out of breaking
[22:12] <Jam> i thought it would be stacked in that favor as well but what ended up happening was I was just getting large hits several times
[22:12] <Jam> sending say 1 dread
[22:12] <Jam> 3 times
[22:12] <Jam> then with some possible new changes affecting negative incomes
[22:12] <Jam> it could simply add a new form of war
[22:12] <Jam> - an economic one
[22:13] <Jam> which would involve large grabs forcing enemy empires into negative creds
[22:13] <Jam> thus doing damage that way
[22:13] <Devo> but in the end it only helps the larger guys
[22:14] <Jam> hurts the larger guys as well, more then it would the smaller empires
[22:14] <Sarah> I dont see it being taken back out for round 7
[22:15] <Sarah> a decision on that would have to rest with cw at a later dev hour
[22:15] <Devo> k
[22:15] <Jam> for the larger empires a successful roid hit on your empire will put an empire that's on the edge into negative
[22:15] <Jam> creating a need to keep higher defence home, which makes breaking more possible
[22:16] <Jam> anyway, onto the next person
[22:16] <nav555> before my idea i'd like to point out that cruisersd are the 6th most used ship, and vulture is tied for 7th with some other ships (looking at %'s)...so they are being used...and i really like the vulture concept, because i know some top allaince members want the 18/tick that they can get, but it requires them to have only 8 sf's home...very risky, but very tempting if you can get away with it :P
[22:16] <nav555> now my idea
[22:16] <nav555> a ship that has a very high attack, but very low damage points, hull and shield --->  used mainly to be successful on ppl playing with %...making it disadvantage to keep a low % all the time, without making it pointless to
[22:16] <nav555> %'s are as bad as the market trick was...i dont' see why there isn't something like the 2 tick rule for them...but at least this will make it so you can't be "invincible"
[22:17] <nav555> ei in eclipse at i just set mine to around 33 %
[22:17] <nav555> with sheilds
[22:17] <Sarah> *g* thats what im best known for
[22:17] <nav555> takes about 6 sf's to pass, 60 somethign to kill
[22:17] <Sarah> doh wrong sindow
[22:17] <nav555> virtually impossible to do
[22:17] <Jam> lol
[22:18] <nav555> also
[22:18] <nav555> i'm too sexy for my shirt
[22:18] <Jam> lol
[22:18] <nav555> so we need to invent sexier shirts
[22:18] <Jam> silly nav =P
[22:18] <nav555> so i have something to wear
[22:18] <nav555> what jam?  what did i say?
[22:18] <nav555> also
[22:18] <Jam> lies =P
[22:18] Action: nav555 licks sarah
[22:18] <Jam> anyway
[22:19] <Jam> what does Sarah think because I don't know what to say and I have to take the dog out right quick =P
[22:19] <Sarah> lol
[22:19] <nav555> :D
[22:19] <nav555> oh and turmondine asked me to tell you about my ship:  make it small but great at penetration...and call it the "nav ship"
[22:19] <Sarah> I think we need to have a think about this one to see how it will affect things long term
[22:19] <Sarah> leave it with us
[22:19] <nav555> k :)
[22:19] <Sarah> ta
[22:19] <nav555> thanks sarah/jam
[22:19] <nav555> ahhhhh! its deviant
[22:19] Action: nav555 runs
[22:20] Action: Sarah wishes jam hadnt used pm for ideas
[22:20] <Sarah> if you still have an idea for ships please just say yes in channel now
[22:20] <Glen> nope
[22:20] <Haldir> yes
[22:20] <Sarah> in channel please stop pming me
[22:21] <Goldberg> no
[22:21] <Haldir> i think ship limit should be increased to 15, but u can only have 12 SF's/Dreads, u have to have 3 leechers (biggest leeching ship being Talon) also the leechers will not die when they r attacked, thus making it harder to kill targets
[22:21] <Jam> back
[22:21] <Sarah> Ther eis no benefit in increasing the ship limit when everyone has the same ship limit
[22:22] <Sarah> it is not about how many ships you have but how you use them
[22:22] <Jam> I think no, because people are already sending out too much and leaving too little home and no one else can do anything about it
[22:22] <Jam> I'd say reduce it back to 9 if anything but that's prolly just me =P
[22:22] <Sarah> The ship limit is currently selectable on a per server basis, however I think the current level is about right as you just about fill up all yur slots with sf's by teh end of the round
[22:23] <Sarah> on merlin anyway
[22:23] <Jam> yeah
[22:23] <Haldir> it would require the whole alliance online during a War to kill that target tho
[22:23] <Haldir> cus he can keep leeching ppl
[22:23] <Haldir> and no-one can do anything about it
[22:23] <Sarah> makes no difference you have more ships and they have more ships
[22:24] <Sarah> so it evens out to the point where it makes no difference
[22:24] <Haldir> bah it seemed a good idea at the time
[22:24] <Sarah> thanks
[22:24] <Jam> lol
[22:25] <jjj> faster return time for big ships so ships can return and repair in 24 hours even if they have a lot of damage and the player doesn't have adv engines and drones
[22:25] <jjj> no exploring-players would have better def and they would have to be active to grow (and noone could be acused of beeing a farmer)
[22:25] <jjj> this round the def a ship gave was attack points for some and damage points for the others.why?
[22:25] <jjj> to build a sov we need about half the res that are needed for a dread the difference is to big
[22:25] <jjj> about the % def i posted in PF ( so i won't say much now)and maybe a quick solution would be to make it between 50%(or 60%) and 100% only
[22:25] <jjj> that's all :)
[22:25] <jjj> thx
[22:26] <Jam> I like the idea of reducing return times, but we'll have to see what we do as far as the inter-galaxy return time or whatever to see what we will be doing as far as that goes, then we can possibly adjust base return times from there
[22:26] <Jam> and the attack/damage points thing for defence was to give a defender advantage - which I told you in PM =P
[22:27] <jjj> we talked about all my sugestions in pm
[22:27] <jjj> so here is for the others
[22:27] <Jam> yeah
[22:28] <Sarah> like what jam said
[22:28] <Sarah> we need to find out what is happening with cross galaxy attacks before we change return times
[22:29] <Sarah> so leave that 1 with us and it will be looked at when we do the adjustments
[22:29] <Jam> alright, well, I think that's it for ships =P
[22:30] <Sarah> okay then we are goingto put the market and anythingelse together so if you have any more ideas please just say yes in channelnow
[22:30] <Drago> yes
[22:30] <Durran> yes
[22:30] <Durran> =]
[22:30] <acidrain> yes
[22:30] <acidrain> ofc
[22:30] <acidrain> yes
[22:30] <acidrain> :d
[22:30] <jjj> yes
[22:30] <Sarah> just yes would have done acid :P
[22:30] <SkyTech> yes
[22:30] <SkyTech> :)
[22:30] <Sarah> any more ideas?
[22:30] <Goldberg> id like to add something in General..
[22:30] <Glen> nope
[22:30] <ViVi> yes
[22:31] <Drago> just a quick 1
[22:31] <Drago> create an attack cruiser or another type ship that when researched adds attack bonus % to attack fleet same on def like the cruiser d but add % bonus to overall def/att instead of just 1 ship(maybe just able to research 1 or the other not both)
[22:31] <Sarah> that would have to be a research item not a ship
[22:32] <Sarah> its a possibility
[22:32] <Drago> or added modifyer too existing ships
[22:32] <Drago> k ty
[22:32] <Sarah> im juts trying to think how it would affect things in teh long term
[22:32] <Sarah> jam what do you think
[22:33] <Sarah> I cannot see any real problem at this time
[22:33] <Jam> fine with em
[22:33] <Sarah> okay we will say that is probable then
[22:33] <Drago> ty
[22:34] <Sarah> yw
[22:34] <Sarah> thanks
[22:34] <Durran> Ok.
[22:34] <Durran> How about ships that, either before or after the main combat, steals shieldings from other ships?
[22:34] <Durran> Stealing Hull doesn't make much sense..
[22:34] <Durran> But, emulating the Mantis/Orion from earlier games..
[22:34] <Sarah> we used ot have this and it didnt get used much
[22:35] <Sarah> it was removed by vote
[22:35] <Durran> In which?
[22:35] <Sarah> orion and mantis
[22:35] <Durran> Those weren't too strong.
[22:35] <Durran> And they were medium-level.
[22:35] <Durran> Replaced by higher ships as the empire progressed.
[22:35] <Sarah> and they were removed by a majority vote
[22:35] <Sarah> so sorry no
[22:35] <Durran> Argh.
[22:36] <Sarah> acid
[22:36] <acidrain> yes?
[22:36] <acidrain> :d
[22:36] <acidrain> The Star-Fury international bank, you can borrow max of 500,000 or one million from this evil bank, but you have 48hrs to pay it back, same deal with metal/deut but lower ammounts ofc, or have to research to be able to access this lovely bank :) and a security system for them robbers too :d
[22:36] <acidrain> and i have another idea regarding researches once this one gets refused for x reasons
[22:36] <acidrain> :d
[22:36] <Sarah> we have implemented something along these lines already which will be tried in eclipse at least next round and possibly merlin
[22:36] <acidrain> cool
[22:37] <Sarah> other idea?
[22:37] <acidrain> sf battle calculator in game coded nicely ofc, and researchable
[22:37] <acidrain> or not
[22:37] <acidrain> noobs rarely know how to calc all that sutff when coming to attack
[22:37] <Sarah> I dont think this is something that actually belongs as part of the game and should just be something done by fans on fan sites
[22:38] <Jam> I know there are a few already
[22:38] <Jam> jjj made one, I made one but I dun really share it
[22:38] <acidrain> well mention em somewhere :)
[22:38] <Sarah> we give them a scan that shows how much defence someone has so its pretty easy to see if your attack will succed or not
[22:38] <acidrain> cause think of the noobs
[22:38] <acidrain> yea but to kill all ships etc
[22:38] <acidrain> noob alliances just suicide cause they cant figure it out
[22:38] <acidrain> lol
[22:38] <Sarah> then they should have to try to work it out instead of saying to kill this do this
[22:39] <Sarah> there has to be some element of skill to killling and not just press here to kill this empire
[22:39] <Jam> the main thing that'd prolly help in the small scale is re-adding the helper bot w/ the maximum attack/damage points, people seem to be too lazy to use the ships.php power core/point modifier
[22:39] <Jam> or maybe build it into Oracle/eclipse
[22:39] <Jam> then it could even use the active game DB
[22:39] <acidrain> yea sounds good like that
[22:39] <Sarah> I dont see any problem with that
[22:39] <Sarah> but as for a full battle calc in game the answer has to be no sorry acid
[22:40] <Jam> oo, I like this one =P
[22:40] <jjj> leave noob mode button (maybe only after the first weeks of the round)-now noob empires are killed in wars so they can't leech for 2 days so if they can leave noob and leech there is no point in killing the
[22:40] <jjj> and 1 more ideea i'll just paste the convo with jam
[22:40] <Jam> lol doh, not the one I thought he was gonna say
[22:40] <jjj> <jjj> what do you think about a ship market on irc
[22:40] <jjj> <jjj> live bidding
[22:40] <jjj> <Jam> on IRC? lol
[22:40] <jjj> <jjj> it would be fun
[22:40] <jjj> <Jam> complicated as hell to code
[22:40] <jjj> <jjj> a bot?
[22:40] <Jam> aha here there it is =P...well, half it
[22:41] <jjj> <Jam> and it has certain complications
[22:41] <jjj> <Jam> but wow
[22:41] <jjj> <Jam> that's a damn good idea =P
[22:41] <Sarah> I dont think a live auction is a good idea
[22:41] <jjj> lol
[22:41] <Sarah> not for round 7
[22:41] <Jam> well
[22:41] <Jam> maybe not for round 7
[22:41] <Jam> but we have to add it eventually
[22:41] <jjj> for the future
[22:41] <Sarah> maybe sometime in future but not for r 7
[22:41] <Sarah> what did you want to do witht eh noob button?
[22:41] <Sarah> turn it on / off / flashing pink
[22:41] <jjj> lol
[22:41] <Jam> I think it should be set up in the admin panel to make changing the settings
[22:42] <Jam> oooo flashing pink (=
[22:42] <Sarah> it is jam
[22:42] <jjj> make it possible to leave noob mode
[22:42] <Sarah> it is already possible to leave noob mode early depending ont eh server
[22:42] <Sarah> there is a minimum period of time you must stay in noob mode though and the button is only available after the first x days of teh round
[22:42] <Sarah> so it is totally in the server admins hands
[22:43] <jjj> llama asked me to suggest this so i'll paste it
[22:43] <Sarah> sorry one idea at a time
[22:43] <SkyTech> 1. Make the roid kill posible only when 2 alliances had declared war on each other !  2. with the new sectors there should be a option before the game starts that makes posible 4 ppl to move sectors.  3. New ahip that can be researched - that will increas the defence/damage  4. resources market - or at least can be sent to other platers in the sector like cash - resources found! 5. Page with the ships attak/damage points would be nice to.
[22:43] <Sarah> how many ideas is that?
[22:44] <SkyTech> 7 
[22:44] <Jam> I count 5
[22:44] <Jam> or not
[22:44] <SkyTech> well 4 
[22:44] <Jam> lol
[22:44] <Sarah> 1. why 2. no 3. already discussed 4.no 5.already available
[22:44] <SkyTech> cos when u smal 
[22:44] <SkyTech> they hit 4 roids 
[22:44] <SkyTech> 5 where ? 
[22:45] <Sarah> ships.php
[22:45] <SkyTech> 2 well afther U maked an acount and U joeined a secto 
[22:45] <Sarah> when you are small there is very little point in hitting because you are small
[22:45] <SkyTech> and u see that well a new alliance will be made and u want to join that 
[22:45] <SkyTech> before ticks started
[22:45] <SkyTech> U can't u have to delete and then make a new acount 
[22:45] <Sarah> we have already discussed that point tonigth
[22:46] <SkyTech> nr 7 PLS do something abput it 
[22:46] <Sarah> ok
[22:46] <SkyTech> *about 
[22:46] <SkyTech> thanx 4 the time 
[22:46] <SkyTech> no more to add 
[22:46] <Goldberg> for one have a extra recearch for versuden or loose the population tax as a recearch already done.. Also loose the defence % in eclipse cause as in a war by example as attacking alliance ur in a large disatvantage if someone has it set on 10% ull need a lot of empires to send out alot to kill all ships, wich means they will have a lot less to defend with and thus easier for the defending alliance to break the the attackers.(what jjj sa
[22:47] <Sarah> they have pop tax as a downside
[22:47] <Sarah> you cannot have all the positive points on one race
[22:47] <Jam> pop tax isn't a down side =O
[22:47] <Goldberg> i know that
[22:47] <Sarah> no to lose the defence %
[22:47] <Goldberg> but
[22:47] <Jam> but the +10% offense is a HUGE advantage
[22:47] <Goldberg> in the time here extra recearches have been added
[22:47] <Sarah> it is if you compareit to say having adv power done
[22:47] <Goldberg> but not the posibility for versuden to have one more
[22:48] <Jam> well, I'm looking at making changes to research as soon as I get the time/motivation
[22:48] <Sarah> but they get the benefit of the attack +10% why should they get another advantage?
[22:48] <Goldberg> well sure i know they have the 10%
[22:48] <Goldberg> but for me it was more towards the pop tax
[22:48] <Goldberg> wich i dont really see the advantage off
[22:48] <Jam> the 10% is a huge advantage, it's the best advantage you could get in my opinion
[22:48] <Sarah> thats the thing
[22:49] <Sarah> the pop tax is not a big advantage that is specifically to level out having the +10%
[22:49] <Goldberg> like i said u can keep it on 7 but then 7 free choices
[22:49] <Goldberg> ok
[22:49] <Sarah> research will be changing dramatically son
[22:49] <Sarah> so I have to say no to this at this time
[22:49] <Goldberg> kewl
[22:49] <Goldberg> :)
[22:49] <Goldberg> k tnx again
[22:50] <Sarah> ta
[22:50] <ViVi> 1 for ships: a ramdon event when your ships are returning somtimes you hit a wurm hole and return time is halfed. and 1 for market: you can but power somthing like 1unit of power costs 5credits.
[22:50] <ViVi> buy*
[22:50] <Sarah> I will be looking at random events in teh next couple of days to add some positive ship events as the ship events are currently all negative
[22:50] <ViVi> CooL
[22:51] <Sarah> As for bidding with power I do not think that is a good idea
[22:51] <ViVi> ok
[22:51] <Sarah> there is no point in building trili mines if you can buy stuff using power
[22:51] <Sarah> thanks for your ships idea
[22:51] <ViVi> no you can buy power if you are lacking it
[22:52] <Sarah> are there any ore ideas not covered yet? Please say yes in channel if you have one
[22:52] <ViVi> in the market
[22:52] <Ribena> yay
[22:52] <Goldberg> versuden has the advantage of 10% offence but the 25% power disadvantage
[22:52] <Ribena> Ribena the god can spk
[22:52] <Jam> Goldberg: the races are fine atm
[22:52] Action: Glen can to
[22:52] <Ribena> `%%'`%% +v <-> Thank You <-> Sarah `%%`%%,
[22:52] <Ribena> thanks sweetie :P
[22:53] <Sarah> you had an idea?
[22:53] <Jam> no that was a celebratory yay
[22:53] <Ribena> nope but leave thge voice i wont spk
[22:53] <Jam> that he could talk =P
[22:53] <nav555> the ability to put ships on the market for resources other than just money...ei. power/deut/metal etc... (cadets if possible)
[22:53] <nav555> and
[22:53] <Sarah> just nav and goldberg left
[22:53] <nav555> well i have to go so i just want to say....your all a bunch of ugleh noobehs...except sarah (she's prettah, but i'm stealing psyk from her)...deviant scares the heck outta meh...and you better work on that shirt thats sexy enough for me, cuz its damn cold without it :(  --- also thanks for the dev hour, and acidrain is a noobeh, and jjj pwnz you all...and rasky IS NOT ev0l!
[22:53] <nav555> :D
[22:53] <nav555> later :)
[22:53] <Sarah> no
[22:54] <nav555> but i think my idea is good
[22:54] <Sarah> build your empire to provide what you need
[22:54] <nav555> actually i just thought it up as an excuse to say the 2nd part sarah
[22:54] <nav555> i agree with you
[22:54] <nav555> its a dumb idea
[22:54] <Sarah> it is the whole idea between having the different buildings
[22:54] <nav555> too abusable
[22:54] Action: Sarah pokes Goldberg
[22:55] <Jam> lol
[22:55] <Jam> [17:52:55] <Goldberg> now im done :)
[22:55] <Jam> I think he was done =p
[22:55] <Sarah> [10:51p] <Goldberg> got one more
[22:55] <Sarah> 5
[22:55] <Sarah> 4
[22:55] <Sarah> 3
[22:55] <Sarah> 2
[22:55] <Sarah> 1
[22:55] <Sarah> 0
[22:55] <Sarah> he is now
[22:55] <Jam> oh yeah, grimfist had one that I'll say for him =p
[22:55] <Sarah> Thank you all for joinging us tonight - this development hour is now over after 3 hours
[22:55] <Jam> or not
[22:55] <Jam> lol
[22:56] <Sarah> The next round of merlin and eclipse will be announced on the forums and by email in the normal manner
[22:56] <Sarah> please remember that asking the admins on irc when the round starts is against the rules!
[22:56] <Jam> that please should be emphasized =P